Flat renovation - what order to do stuff in?

drg0nz0

Hi, we've moved into a maisonette flat in SW London that needs renovating. Needs a completely new kitchen and bathroom (and I was going to replace the combi boiler at the same time) - and also the lounge and bedrooms need skimming (plaster is solid throughout but lots of dents on corners, some cracks, and uneven in places when originally done).

I am quite confused as to what order to have this done in (not by me, getting professionals in!). I thought of having skimming first as this lets us have time to decide on kitchen/bath fittings and materials (I know we could hire a company to do everything all in one go, but I didn't want to rush right now with the kitchen/bath decisions). But radiators will have to be removed by a plumber for skimming in most rooms and then put back in and CH refilled - is that expensive? (I read £100 per rad, costing me £400?!). And then, a few months down the line when kitchen, boiler & bath get done - again remove 2 rads in those rooms and also drain the CH..?

Perhaps there's no way of avoiding any of this. But what would you say is the most sensible and cost-effective sequence of doing the renovations that I decribed? We also have a sofa arriving in 7-10 weeks that will use up quite a lot of lounge space, and not really unpacked yet, that's why I was thinking of getting skimming out of the way...

Many thanks...

dawyldthing

Our new radiators for a full house cost I think 600 so for them to take them off and put them back on again shouldn't cost that much. You'd be better draining the system and taking them off then instructing the plumber after the walls are skimmed I think

fluffpot

make sure you get the electrics tested before any skimming as if they fail and you need some rewiring then all your nice new walls will be chopped about to run new cables...

Leif

When my kitchen was redone, a local shop did the plan for the new kitchen, I removed most of the old kitchen, the builder removed the gas pipe, and the remaining items, then completely rewired the kitchen, and skimmed it. They then installed the boiler, including chasing some boiler pipes into the plaster, and then patched the plaster. I had to do a lot of sanding of the patch to get it looking okay.

As regards internal walls, corner dings, small holes and cracks are easily filled using a powder filler such as Easi-fill which a lot of builders use. To do a corner, just nail a batten to the wall, and fill up to the batten, leave a few days, then sand. To do a crack, widen the crack with the corner of a scraper, then fill and sand. I patched most of my walls, only seriously bad ones were skimmed, and you can't tell the difference. As for unevenness, if you mean a gentle waviness, so a spirit level placed against the wall reveals gaps, then what makes you think another skim would be any better? My bathroom was replastered, and the walls are irregular. All the bedrooms have irregular walls, and the screed floors are irregular.

As for the radiators, are the pipes going into the floor or the wall? Mine went into the floor. I took the radiators off myself, it does require care for obvious reasons i.e. you can flood the house, so you must know what you are doing. But as long as you know how to close the valves, and you do not damage the pipes, it is not hard. You might need two people as they can be heavy. You need lots of old towels as some water will spurt out. The builders I used left the radiator supports on the wall, and plastered up to the edges which is fine as they are hidden from view.

drg0nz0

Thank you for the replies so far, each very useful!

@dawyldthing - you say your radiators cost £600 - is that the cost of the radiators themselves, or labour cost for replacing the old ones - or both?

@fluffpot - great advice, thank you. I'd forgotten that we do need to test the electrics. Most wiring is inside the walls but some is run externally in plastic trunking ducts (for mains sockets that were added after the flat was built). Do you happen to know if it's normal/OK to have external wiring like that or does it have to be sunk into the walls these days?

@Leif - thank you for a very informative reply. I thought that skimming would create a brand new and totally smooth surface, ie it might go on to slightly 'wavy' old wall but the plasterer would level the new wet plaster perfectly straight. Is that not the case?

It's not like I want to throw money away on skimming (and I could DIY the scuffs and cracks as you describe, and then repaint), but I thought skimming would create that 'newly-built flat' feel where the walls are totally smooth because in some places the waviness is annoying me. But maybe I'm too obsessive about it..

The CH pipes go through walls. CH was retro-fitted after the flat was built (also floors are concrete). Does this make a difference?

Leif

All I can say is that the plasterer who did the bathroom did not produce flat walls, and of the 2 sitting room walls that were done, I know 1 is not flat.

drg0nz0 wrote: »

The CH pipes go through walls. CH was retro-fitted after the flat was built (also floors are concrete). Does this make a difference?

Do you mean that the pipes are chased into the walls and emerge at the radiators, or they literally go through the walls to another room? My pipes originally went along walls, on the surface, and through walls. I have no idea what difference it makes, a plasterer/builder would have to tell you, sorry.

drg0nz0

Leif wrote: »

Do you mean that the pipes are chased into the walls and emerge at the radiators, or they literally go through the walls to another room? My pipes originally went along walls, on the surface, and through walls. I have no idea what difference it makes, a plasterer/builder would have to tell you, sorry.

The pipes come out of the boiler and run along the walls (externally), just above the skirting boards, and then where appropriate, through holes drilled into the walls and into the next room, etc. Does not look the prettiest but with concrete floor there's nowhere for them to go. Will look a lot better if I paint the copper - or, I recently discovered these Talon skirting covers, might think about those depending on price.

I am starting to wonder if skimming may not be the answer as if the plasterer applies an even (say 3mm) skim coat to the slightly wobbly lines of the wall/ceiling, it would still look wobbly. Well, there's only so much web searching I can do. Just need to have a few people come in and see what they say. One of the rooms has plaster coming off around the window so something has to be done there at least, and one lounge wall has painted-over wallpaper so have to take care of that somehow..

vaio

A decent plaster should be able to get it almost perfectly flat. I've seen architects with a metre rule and an inch wide thin (1 maybe 2mm) bit of plastic checking plaster.

Place the rule in multiple places & directions on the wall, any gaps big enough to get the plastic between the rule & wall and it goes on the snagging list for remedial attention

Leif

drg0nz0 wrote: »

The pipes come out of the boiler and run along the walls (externally), just above the skirting boards, and then where appropriate, through holes drilled into the walls and into the next room, etc. Does not look the prettiest but with concrete floor there's nowhere for them to go. Will look a lot better if I paint the copper - or, I recently discovered these Talon skirting covers, might think about those depending on price.

I am starting to wonder if skimming may not be the answer as if the plasterer applies an even (say 3mm) skim coat to the slightly wobbly lines of the wall/ceiling, it would still look wobbly. Well, there's only so much web searching I can do. Just need to have a few people come in and see what they say. One of the rooms has plaster coming off around the window so something has to be done there at least, and one lounge wall has painted-over wallpaper so have to take care of that somehow..

Yes, get plasterers in and see what they say.

I used to have pipes like you, running round rooms, and through walls. For your information you can have them chased into the walls, or the screed as I did, but it costs a good whack, I paid about £1,000.