Transfer of house ownership to avoid contesting a will?

DRP

Mojisola wrote: »

As the solicitor has made notes about the father, that should be enough. If they want the extra security, the other options are there.

A lot depends on how nasty A could be. The nastier things could get, the more ways of rebutting him the better.

Have they considered the deprivation of capital issue if the father needed funded care in the future? Could B find the money to pay for it? Would the house have to be sold and where would that leave B?

Does deprivation of capital refer to the Father's assets that the social services would use to pay for the father's care?

If care is required, the plan is that B would live with the father, either in his house or B's house. B owns their own house outright.

zzzLazyDaisy

DRP wrote: »

Thanks for this.

I have been updated on the situation:

• B has now received the documents confirming she owns the father's property.

Is that really what you mean? If she now owns the property, the will is irrelevant.

Or do you mean that the documents confirm that she will inherit the property on her father's death?

There is potentially a big difference in terms of tax, ownership, and the fact that while a will can later be changed, a gift cannot be taken back.

DRP

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Is that really what you mean? If she now owns the property, the will is irrelevant.

Or do you mean that the documents confirm that she will inherit the property on her father's death?

There is potentially a big difference in terms of tax, ownership, and the fact that while a will can later be changed, a gift cannot be taken back.

Yes, the ownership has now been transferred to B - apolgies but my OP was a bit behind current events and the transfer has just been finalised

Are you saying there is no way this can now be contested? (or rather in the event of the father's death?)

Mojisola

DRP wrote: »

Does deprivation of capital refer to the Father's assets that the social services would use to pay for the father's care?

If care is required, the plan is that B would live with the father, either in his house or B's house. B owns their own house outright.

Yes. If the house has been gifted now (rather than left in the will).

Planning to care until death is admirable but is not always possible. It's worth having a back-up plan in case residential care is ever necessary.

As LazyDaisy says - if the house has been gifted now there are other issues like tax to consider.

zzzLazyDaisy

The transfer of the house can't be challenged under the will, as it isn't part of the estate, provided it is a 'clean' transfer with no strings attached.

But there is potentially a bigger issue re deprivation of assets should he ever need to go into a care home.

Also if the house has been transferred but he is still living there, and not paying a market rent, it is a 'gift with reservation' which means he still has a beneficial interest, which may then mean that the house falls back into the estate.

Also if B is not living there as her main residence, there are potential CGT implications.

But I presume they explained everything to the solicitor, and got full legal advice on what they were planning to do.

paddedjohn

If he is still living in the house then he needs to pay rent ( the daughter can give it back if she wants)

SailorSam

The reason a nominal amount, 5p or £5 is left to the second son is to stop him coming forward to say he'd been forgotten. The fact that he's been left something no matter how little says that he was thought of and that is what the Dad thought he deserved.

DRP

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

The transfer of the house can't be challenged under the will, as it isn't part of the estate, provided it is a 'clean' transfer with no strings attached.

But there is potentially a bigger issue re deprivation of assets should he ever need to go into a care home.

Also if the house has been transferred but he is still living there, and not paying a market rent, it is a 'gift with reservation' which means he still has a beneficial interest, which may then mean that the house falls back into the estate.

Also if B is not living there as her main residence, there are potential CGT implications.

But I presume they explained everything to the solicitor, and got full legal advice on what they were planning to do.

Ouch. That doesn't sound good.

Is there a time limitation (between transfer of house and death of previous owner?) or any other way this risk could be attenuated?

InMyDreams

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

But there is potentially a bigger issue re deprivation of assets should he ever need to go into a care home.

Would this actually ever be an issue in this case though? Wouldn't it only be an issue if the father actually tried to claim funding for his care?

If the situation arose where care needed to be funded, the house could still be sold (just as if the father still owned it) because B has his own house to live in. No claim would have to be made.

Or is the problem that if the situation went on for a long time, longer than the proceeds from the sale would have covered it, then the father would have somehow waived his rights to any further funding and B would end up having to sell his house too?

Or is the problem that if the father actually out-lives B then again, he's stuffed as B no longer around to support him? Could that be resolved with careful wording of B's will?

zzzLazyDaisy

InMyDreams wrote: »

Would this actually ever be an issue in this case though? Wouldn't it only be an issue if the father actually tried to claim funding for his care?

If the situation arose where care needed to be funded, the house could still be sold (just as if the father still owned it) because B has his own house to live in. No claim would have to be made.

Or is the problem that if the situation went on for a long time, longer than the proceeds from the sale would have covered it, then the father would have somehow waived his rights to any further funding and B would end up having to sell his house too?

Or is the problem that if the father actually out-lives B then again, he's stuffed as B no longer around to support him? Could that be resolved with careful wording of B's will?

You are right, it is only an issue provided he doesn't try to claim care fees. So as long as B doesn't get divorced and lose half the value of what is now HER house in the divorce, or die prematurely with no will, or go bankrupt, or lose the house playing poker.. (anyway, you get the picture) the the house can be sold to pay the care home fees.....

Of course if any of those things happen while he is still living there (if he is) that will be a bit inconvenient for him too.

But as I said before, I assume they would have asked the solicitor for advice rather than faceless people on a forum.