Vets4Pets first visit beware.

Benzade

Hi everyone would just like to comment on the Vets4Pets "Vaccination for life" offer that they run from time to time and I believe are currently running.

Whilst this is undoubtedly a great money saving offer especially if you have just bought a new puppy or kitten which hopefully will be with you for a very long time you need to be on your guard that they will try to claw that money back elsewhere during your pets time with them.

For example when I took my new puppy a black Labrador named Lucy to them I was asked "Was she insured?" My wife said "No". The Vet look horrified and spoke to us in a rather condesending tone as though we were the worst owners in the world reminding us of the huge costs involved should Lucy be injured or develop some serious illness in her lifetime.
My wife simply replied that if masses of treatment or multiple operations were involved at a future date it would not be fair to expect Lucy to go through that kind of suffering if the problem was that serious and surely we'd be putting our own feelings over that of our pet by putting her through that?
Of course the money grabbing Vet had no answer to this ethical question.

During this first visit they also tried to peddle a "Puppy shower party" for £10 where I could take my puppy to meet other not fully vaccinated puppies of the same age.
This idea flies in the face of keeping your puppy away from where other dogs have been untill they are fully vaccinated to reduce the risk of them catching diseases such as Cannine Distemper.
This "Party" will be held one evening at Vets4Pets (Where other "sick" animals have been during the day) and this is just a ploy to get you there where a dog trainer will come to give you some free advice and hopefully you'll be that impressed you'll sign up to some lessons with them.

That's not to mention the "Special" foods and other needless things they tried to sell me and my wife during Lucys first visit which had Lucy needed could have been purchased for considerably less elsewhere.

Fortunately I have over 30 years experience of having a Labrador helping my father raise three up from being pups to live out long and happy lives so I have first hand knowledge of their needs. The vet never asked either of us had we had dogs before she just took it we was a newly wed couple and this was our first dog.

krlyr

You will get good practices and bad practices within a franchise, and good and bad vets within each practice, so your experience may not reflect every vet at this company. You disliked the assumption about yourselves by this vet so maybe reconsider tarring all vets with the same brush from one negative experience.
I think its sensible to remember vets are businesses too. They may love animals, but the practice needs to make a profit and staff need to support this to keep their jobs. Of course the vaccination offer is to keep you loyal so they can make money elsewhere, asavvy marketing team would have thought it up, but you can be a savvy consumer and shop around, just because you're registered and have the dog vaccinated there, doesn't mean you can't use other vet practices if they're cheaper.

I'm not a fan of most puppy parties anyway and think its a shame vets run them. Stick to what they're good at, vet treament and medical advice IMO. Puppies don't have good manners as they've yet to develop them, they should be socialised with polite adult dogs rather than thrown together with other puppies lacking in social skills, its a recipe for disaster in my eyes - like a party full of young kids, it has lots of potential to get out of hand and end in tears. You'd do far better finding a local trainer who offers puppy socialization with calm adult dogs (and maybe one or two puppies, carefully supervised)

Ditto with food recommandations, apparently vets get very little education on diet, mostly lectures sponsored by companies like Hills or Royal Canin. I wouldn't expect my GP to work out a diet plan for me at an appointment, they'd refer me to a nutritionist, so I often take vets dietary suggestions with a pinch of salt and do my own research.

I do have to disagree a bit about your view on insurance though, there are many conditions which require expensive treatments but with a great prognosis. Mending a broken leg may be costly and require some enforced rest but would avoid a lifetime of pain or the decision to euthanize a young, otherwise healthy dog for example.

lisajane8482

My cat was with vets4pets and they have been superb when we have used them. We are with a different vet now but that was due to the travelling distance and more suitable opening hours on a weekend.

I agree with krlyr on the insurance though.

We've used our pet insurance for Salem once (we've only had him 18 months). He ate lily stamen which is highly poisionous and required 3 days of IV fluids and blood tests and a further blood test a month later. His treatment came to over £1000 (£850 of it from emergeny vets, the remainder from vets4pets). Without the treatment he would have ended up with kidney failure (still could have with the treatment if we hadn't took him straight away). There is no way we could have afforded £1000, he would have been PTS and that would have been a waste especially since he made a full recovery. However, if there had been any damage to his kidneys then the insurance would have paid for the treatment so he could still live a happy and content liife.

Benzade

Thanks for the reply Krlyr however has I have stated I have over 30 years experience regarding dogs and the Vets at Vets4Pets are by no means the first Vets I have dealt with so no I'm not tarring them all with the same brush. Whilst I respect that to them it's their living I also feel they unashamedly cash in on animal lovers at times when there is no need to.

Take the cod liver oil capsules I was once prescribed for one of my fathers dogs by a Vet not connected with the Vets4Pets practice during an annual booster injection who litterally shamed me into buying them in front of his receptionist during a routine visit when I was a teenager that were three times the price of those in a health food shop. Apart from the dogs coat being slightly dull because he was shedding his winter coat he was perfectly healthy but the cost of the annual booster injection was obviously not enough for this Vet that day.

Regarding pet insurance personally I've never seen the need for it if your pet is not allowed to stray and you are a sensible enough owner you can reduce the risk of most accidents/fights with other dogs by not taking them to places where they may get hurt and allowing them off the lead.
Also pet owners need to be aware of what they are actually getting with a pet insurance policy and need to carefully understand the T&Cs of any policy they take out as come the time they need it after slavishly paying those premiums for a number of years they find out the policy doesn't cover the problem with their beloved pet.

I will agree wholeheatedly regards the diet thing with you though Krlyr as the Vets4Pets staff seem to think that dogs and cats are not unique at the practice I go to and should all be the same weight it states in the textbooks they quote from. They do not take into consideration an animals pedigree if it has come from working/show stock if it is being used as a working animal or not. It's either over/under weight as black and white as that. My mother in law has the same problem with her cat so it isn't just me over reacting or in denial.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is don't just take a Vets word as gospel just because they have letters after their name and in fancy lights over the door. Don't be afraid to question why does my pet need this or that? What is the price of this treatment and can I get this treatment cheaper over the counter in the High Street? For example worming tablets, flea treatments, shampoo etc.

Philippa36

Our Vets4pets practise have been wonderful so far - we went for the vaccination for life programme and 1st year puppy care which admittedly was a lot upfront but has meant that our dog has the best start as far as we're concerned. We also have insurance as we have for our home and cars to avoid those nasty large bills. I don't think all medical problems our pup could suffer with are so bad we'd euthanise him instead!

I've been very happy and they haven't attempted to sell us anything over what we've paid for already. They don't push the Royal Canin either which is just as well as it didn't suit our pup.

Benzade

People seem to be taking the statement my wife said to the Vet out of context. If our dog had say a broken leg or some curable disease then of course we wouldn't have her "Put down" as it is coarsly termed simply because we wouldn't pay for pet insurance we fortunately have that kind of money and would willing spend it on Lucy to make her better.

However if she had say slipped her leash on a main road and was hit by a car which left her with little to no hope of survivial and fighting for her life then I'm sorry as a responsible pet owner you have to make that tough call irrespective of pet insurance or how much you have in the bank.

To put your pet whom you supposedly love through things like multiple operations etc when the animal has such a slim chance to none of survival is just plain cruel and you are putting your own selfish feelings before that of your pet simply because you aren't brave enough to make that call.

I don't want to start or enter a debate regards euthanasia the above is our view on the subject. My original post was to warn others that Vets4Pets did try to upsell me stuff and products I didn't need and I wittnessed them do the same to another young family who unfortunately didn't know any better as they had never had a dog before by their own admission.

gemini12

I have no experiebce of Pet4 Vets but on the subject of insurance I will tell a cationary tale.
We have a 3 year old Jack Russel who has a very rare health condition called neuromyotonia. This is a life long condition and is treated with a drug called Mexilitne which is only available from Japan and costs approx £2.00 per tablet and she also has carbamazepine which is easily avalilable (Thank Goodness). To diagnose the condition at the local veterinary hospital cost over £1000.00.
She has a good quality of life and we certainly would not consider euthanasia at the moment although that may come in the future, Without insurance we would have had no choice and neither would she.
My point is dogs, like people, do get ill with diseases not just fights and mixing with other dogs If you can afford vets fees fine but many of us would struggle so a few pounds a month are worth it for peace of mind.

We do also have another Jack and have never had to claim for her but I consider it money well spent anyway and I cannot see into the future.

krlyr

A broken leg may not just occur from a fight or being hit by a car. A fluke accident can happen to any dog and your normal off-lead run in the park might end with the dog leaping up and landing at a bad angle or in a pothole and snapping a bone. I had a pet chinchilla that broke its leg so badly it had to be amputated, and that was within the comfort of its cage, no outside party involved at all, just a freak accident. It cost a few hundred to treat but he recovered well and you'd never have known to glance at him that he had a leg missing (chinchillas have a thick coat so it wasn't even obvious to notice) as he bounced around just as much.
Or as gemini says, health conditions can occur out of nowhere and rack up the bills. My previous dog was only 2 when she was diagnosed with hip dysplasia. Fortunately she was insured so I never had to make any decisions based on finances. As it was, she wasn't suitable for the operation because of behavioural issues - and my vets understood this, they never pushed for it as they could see it wouldn't be fair on her. But had she been a candidate, having that insurance in place would have meant I could have her hips replaced, be covered for the several thousands of pounds each hip, and after a few months of recuperation she would have had hopefully a good 10 years ahead of her, all for the sake of £25 a month (even without the ops, I was paid back far more than I ever paid out for her insurance). Without the operations, she sadly only made it another 2 years before her hips deteriorated to the stage it was kinder to have her euthanised - that is the kind of decision some people may have to make out of necessity if they don't have the funds for that kind of treatment, rather than because it's fairer to the dog.

Fair enough if you have money set aside, available immediately (many vets will refuse to treat without payment ASAP - OK, they can't refuse lifesaving treatment in an emergency but they could refuse non-urgent tests and treatment) but you didn't say that in your first post, you said that your wife had rejected the idea of insurance because you felt lots of treatment wouldn't be fair to a dog.

RevolvingDoor

Benzade wrote: »

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is don't just take a Vets word as gospel just because they have letters after their name and in fancy lights over the door. Don't be afraid to question why does my pet need this or that? What is the price of this treatment and can I get this treatment cheaper over the counter in the High Street? For example worming tablets, flea treatments, shampoo etc.

I would agree with this. I don't like Pets at Home for this reason. My current vets is a small company and much better but even they tried to sell me some of their "quality" dog food but I had already researched the best brands and that wasn't one of them. It's much cheaper to buy online, Zooplus are great or just Amazon.

Benzade

I understand everyone has different opinons on pet insurance and I'm not saying don't get it if you feel it is right for you. For us it wasn't and my wife was merely giving the vet the reason why we hadn't chosen to insure our pet.

Of course none of us have a crystal ball or can see into the future. After living and having dogs my whole life I'm not naive enough to believe that huge vets bills will only arise from accidents off the lead and fights with other dogs. (However the majority of injuries in a dogs life are attributed to these and can be avoided irrespective of if your dog is insured or not).
Fortunately enough at present should a problem with our dog arise we can afford treatment for her. That may change and if it did we would reconsider pet insurance and shop around for the best deal that suits our needs.

But I would strongly recommend people know what their pet insurance covers and how much the company they are insured with will pay out on any vets fees incurred on a claim. There have been cases where pet owners have found the amount and number of vet fees the insurance will cover drops the older the pet becomes. In theory this is counter productive as the older the pet becomes the more likely it is to need veterinary care.

My only reason for starting this thread was to warn people to be on their guard when signing up to Vets4Pets vaccination for life scheme. Don't automatically take their word as gospel or assume that other products they have to offer are needed or any better or competative that you can buy independently elsewhere just because they are a veterinary practice.

And finally Krylr yes I still stand by my statement that in certain circumstances where there is little chance of long and expensive treatments improving your dogs quality of life (I'm talking about old age here) or the dog surviving after treatment but the treatment will mean prolonged hardship to the dog during a long period of recovery time then yes it is unfair to the dog irrespective of the cost involved.

con1888

I never take in everything vet says always make my own decision too ( with guidance from vets/trainers) luckily our vet don't say much in the way of food as we feed a raw diet, I know some people have had vets tell them not to and to suggest food they sell but our vet admitted she didn't know a lot about raw diet but she knows that it needs to be varied and to make sure he gets everything he needs, otherwise she is happy with it.

As for insurance, to me it's a must. Admittedly as a child our family dogs weren't insured and had nothing wrong with them til they died of old age but I tend to have bad luck ( eg. every appliance broke in my 1st year in new house ) so its peace of mind incase he is unfortunate enough to develop a health condition or hurt himself. Obviously you make sure they aren't roaming streets etc but all it takes is one injury, he recentley cut his foot on glass, didn't need to use insurance but it could so easily have gotten badly infected and problems could have stemmed from there..