'Access Denied'

vodkaburner_2

Hello,

I am in need of some advice regarding access to my kids.
I have my kids staying with me and my wife every fortnight, they stay for two nights and have been in that routine for the last two years. As part of my agreement with the CSA I have to have them for the minimum amount of nights (52) per year. All was going good until October when on my weekend I asked if she could bring the kids to me and I would take them home (I normally pick them up from school) due to a personal reason. She refused, hit the roof and rang CSA that I was no longer having the kids! CSA rang me and I explained what had gone on and they said ok, just keep a diary of events.
The weekend before Christmas I couldn't have the kids again and I gave her at least 6 weeks notice of this and that I would arrange a extra weekend for them to stay as to make up for the weekend I was going to miss, she was fine and that was that.
I then had a talk with my elder daughter who told me that my ex wanted me to have the kids New Year's Eve as part of our agreement with solicitors we used in 2011. This was not on the agreement and I showed her proof of that an that I would be picking up the kids on January 4th as per usual. She denied me to take them for the weekend and told me I would have to go to court to see them again!
Court is a last resort and it'll take months before it even gets there which is something I don't want. We tried mediation in the past but that didn't work as it was all what she wanted and not what was best for the kids.
So, where do I stand on this? I'm thinking of the next time I'm due to have them in two weeks is to just pick them up from school as usual as I have rights to see my kids but I know she'll kick off big time as she has no shame and loves trying to make my life a misery.
Legally, what advice can you guys give me as to my next move?

Sorry it's a bit long winded but think it covers the main details.
I need a brew now...

Thanks

swingaloo

vodkaburner wrote: »

Hello,

I am in need of some advice regarding access to my kids.
I have my kids staying with me and my wife every fortnight, they stay for two nights and have been in that routine for the last two years. As part of my agreement with the CSA I have to have them for the minimum amount of nights (52) per year.

I don't think you 'have to have them' its just that if you do the payments are reduced.

All was going good until October when on my weekend I asked if she could bring the kids to me and I would take them home (I normally pick them up from school) due to a personal reason. She refused, hit the roof and rang CSA that I was no longer having the kids! CSA rang me and I explained what had gone on and they said ok, just keep a diary of events.

So, this one event caused that reaction?

The weekend before Christmas I couldn't have the kids again and I gave her at least 6 weeks notice of this and that I would arrange a extra weekend for them to stay as to make up for the weekend I was going to miss, she was fine and that was that.
I then had a talk with my elder daughter who told me that my ex wanted me to have the kids New Year's Eve as part of our agreement with solicitors we used in 2011. This was not on the agreement and I showed her proof of that an that I would be picking up the kids on January 4th as per usual. She denied me to take them for the weekend and told me I would have to go to court to see them again!

So your ex said 'fine' when you couldn't have the children the weekend before Xmas but when she wanted you to have them on New Years Eve you 'showed proof that you didn't have too'. Did you not speak to your ex about this rather than going through the eldest daughter?

Court is a last resort and it'll take months before it even gets there which is something I don't want. We tried mediation in the past but that didn't work as it was all what she wanted and not what was best for the kids.
So, where do I stand on this? I'm thinking of the next time I'm due to have them in two weeks is to just pick them up from school as usual as I have rights to see my kids but I know she'll kick off big time as she has no shame and loves trying to make my life a misery.
Legally, what advice can you guys give me as to my next move?

Sorry it's a bit long winded but think it covers the main details.
I need a brew now...

Thanks

From your post it seems that its more about your rights than having any 'give and take' with your ex.

If all has been well since you separated why would she go berserk and contact the CSA because of one change of plan. She may well be the ex from hell but give and take works both ways.

You need to sit down together and talk (without the eldest daughter). You can waste months and go to enormous expense going down the court route.

sulkisu

Perhaps she feels annoyed that you altered the contact arrangement on two separate occasions recently, yet when she asked for it to be changed on New Years Eve, you were not prepared to accommodate her.

She was probably just letting off steam - why not wait a few days and give her time to calm down.

fluffnutter

You need to both act like grown-ups. You've got kids fgs.

julie2710

I have to say picking them up from school when your ex has said you can't is a bad idea in my mind. If you turn up and she is there too there will be a scene which will be awful for you children to have to witness, nit to say embarrassing in front of their friends.

Why would you discuss access and rights with your eldest daughter? This is for you and your ex to sort between you not for you or her come to that to put your children in the middle of as some sort of middleman.

Whilst I appreciate you may have had to change plans on pickups due to personal reasons. Things like this do sometimes happen but maybe it was inconvenient for her to do so.

Likewise when you had to change your weekend, regardless of how many weeks notice you gave her, were you doing it for the benefit of the children or for your benefit? She was flexible on that occasion but I have to agree with the other post, as when she asked you to change a date you not only refused you involved your daughter. Was that for the good of your children or to score a point?

Access is always a negotiation and you are right the children should be the ones whose feelings are the main consideration. Maybe read back through what you have written and consider how often you may have put your needs above those of your children.

I'm not trying to have ago at you, we have probably all done it to a small degree at some point. Your biggest faux pas was the involvement of your daughter. There was certainly no benefit to her from your discussion with her.

I hope you can sit down and discuss it properly like adults. Maybe a little bit of humble pie wouldn't go amiss as I'm sure your daughter will have told her mum what you did.

Valli

vodkaburner wrote: »

As part of my agreement with the CSA I have to have them for the minimum amount of nights (52) per year.

But do you WANT them?

When YOU couldn't pick the kids up from school did you explain why - bear in mind that, at this point, instead of her dropping the kids off at 8:30 (ish) and then being free for the 'long' weekend you were expecting her to be at school, collect them and bring them back to you. Regardless of any arrangements she might have made.

If it were me I would be eating humble pie, and apologising and doing my utmost to reopen lines of communication. Much like I have in an effort to get my relationship with my ex husband as civil as possible for the sake of our kids. Courts are adversarial. You've already said that mediation won't work because you can't get your way...

Sommer43

vodkaburner wrote: »

Hello,

I am in need of some advice regarding access to my kids.
I have my kids staying with me and my wife every fortnight, they stay for two nights and have been in that routine for the last two years. As part of my agreement with the CSA I have to have them for the minimum amount of nights (52) per year.

Is this a mutual agreement, or a court ordered agreement?

All was going good until October when on my weekend I asked if she could bring the kids to me and I would take them home (I normally pick them up from school) due to a personal reason.

Reasons happen, at least you called ahead to ask, I think this is a perfectly reasonable request. Things happen, cars break down, events happen. I don't see that you should be penalised for being unable to meet this arrangement. On a few occasions as a parent, over the 12 years of my children's school life, I did have reason to call ahead to the school or a fellow parent to assist in the collection of the children. There has to be reasonable allowance in child contact arrangements to manage this. Unless of course, you are unable to meet the arrangements on a regular basis, which means the agreement has to be amended.

She refused, hit the roof and rang CSA that I was no longer having the kids!

This is the one, where a parent attaches child maintenance to child contact arrangements. The only reason for such a call would be to think f**** you, you can now pay more and I will make sure you pay. Seen it, done it myself, and it still goes on.

CSA rang me and I explained what had gone on and they said ok, just keep a diary of events.
The weekend before Christmas I couldn't have the kids again and I gave her at least 6 weeks notice of this and that I would arrange a extra weekend for them to stay as to make up for the weekend I was going to miss, she was fine and that was that.

I see no issue with this, six weeks notice is plenty of notice to make changes to arrangements.

I then had a talk with my elder daughter who told me that my ex wanted me to have the kids New Year's Eve as part of our agreement with solicitors we used in 2011. This was not on the agreement and I showed her proof of that an that I would be picking up the kids on January 4th as per usual. She denied me to take them for the weekend and told me I would have to go to court to see them again!

Unless your daughter is of an age whereby she can read and understand such matters, then children should not be privvy to matters such as legal documents, it means nothing to them. How old is your daughter? Sounds to me that you have answered my earlier question of has this been to court. It sounds like it hasn't. If she continually refuses contact, then see a solicitor to state that contact is being refused. Let the solicitor guide you. The age of the children will determine court action, but your first port of call, should be asking a Family Law solicitor to write to your ex wife and ask her to commit to an amended contact agreement between you both for the children. Don't wait for the next contact, do it now. Or tomorrow, if she is unwilling to speak to you about contact. Threatening you with court is one thing, but you're the one that has to apply for contact, if she has residency. Residency of the children will have had to have been applied for. Have you telephone contact with the children? What are their ages? Are they able to decide for themselves? Can they talk to mum about wanting to see dad? Age is something that needs to be taken into consideration and if mum is refusing you contact, then you have to do something about it. Get to a solicitor and quick. One letter might do the trick.

Court is a last resort and it'll take months before it even gets there which is something I don't want. We tried mediation in the past but that didn't work as it was all what she wanted and not what was best for the kids.
So, where do I stand on this? I'm thinking of the next time I'm due to have them in two weeks is to just pick them up from school as usual as I have rights to see my kids but I know she'll kick off big time as she has no shame and loves trying to make my life a misery.
Legally, what advice can you guys give me as to my next move?

Sorry it's a bit long winded but think it covers the main details.
I need a brew now...

Thanks

A solicitor. You may well be referred for mediation, but she really is being completely ridiculous in denying access to her children's father, all over a few rearranged pick ups. Frankly, exploding over such an issue is petty and punitive. She will only succeed in hurting her children. I have been through the Family Law courts and trust me, it is draconian and outdated and not at all beneficial for families, as a whole. Useless and one area that needs a complete overhaul, before many more families are eroded and fractured more so than they already are.

Giraffeseeker

Why was NYE a problem? If you ex wife was good enough to give up her fortnightly 'me time' before Xmas to help you out, having them for one night in return can't be too unreasonable, surely? If you couldn't, why not just explain (to your ex) why this was a problem? Showing children court documents is an inflammatory thing to do IMO.

shegirl

Whatever you do,do not go and pick them up from school without her knowledge and if she's said no. That will just make matters a whole lot worse(along with panicking her when she wonders where they are!)

It sounds like you've both irritated each other with regard to dropping a weekend or wanting another weekend,then changing transport plans.I've seen that happen a lot.

You obviously need to talk.If it doesn't work (or even initially),see a solicitor.

Regarding the CSA,she was out of line to do that,unless her intention is to now reduce the nights you have them.Which is still out of line.

Also,there is no agreement with the CSA with regard to contact - they just need to know because 52 nights or more gives a reduction on the maintenance payable.

FBaby

Why didn't you sort something you with one of your acquaintances/family the week-end you couldn't have them? Why do you think your responsibility remained at informing her? Your arranged visitations are your responsibility, if you can't have them, you should ask your ex if she'd mind having them then rather than assume she will have to have them if you can't.

It seems that when you can't have your kids, you expect her to have them, but when it isn't your time to have them, it's not your problem. Very one-sided and I am not surprised she hit the roof.

My ex sees it the same way. When he can't have the kids, it's a case of 'sorry, your problem', but when I can't, I have to ask him and when he accepts, it is on the basis that he is doing me a favour... It does make me angry too!

alwaysbrassic

It's understandable that there may be times when you can't have your children but you also have to appreciate how difficult it must be for you ex, she probably doesn't get a great deal of me time if she has the majority of childcare. Particularly over a stressful time like Xmas.
If it were my ex behaving like you, I would feel that you didn't prioritise the children. Perhaps untrue but difficult to think otherwise when changes are being made to arrangements.