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Martyn1981

ed110220 wrote: »

The problem as I see it is that the equipment side of a competitively priced installation is now only very roughly half of the price, the rest being scaffolding, labour, profit etc. Therefore reductions in module prices on the world market will have a diminishing effect and what really needs to be done is to reduce the other costs.

Hi Ed, forgot to say, I read an article recently (which I can't find now) that high efficiency panels may make a come back, and that fits with what you've posted.

Now that the cost of the panels is quite small, then it might be worth choosing higher performance panels, say 22% v's 17%, even if it doubles the cost of the panels, as the percentage increase in total cost should be similar to the percentage increase in generation.

This probably works quite well in the UK, now that the 4kWp break point has gone, and that undersizing inverters suits our climate. So perhaps 5kWp of high performance panels, rather than 4kWp of normal in the same space, running through a 3.68kW inverter.

[Edit: Additional thought, my panels are an average of 14%, so I'd get 50% more generation, giving me an insane 6,600kWh pa. And my peak would increase to around 6.3kW, only slightly over my 5.9kW DNO permission. M.]

michaels

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hi Ed, forgot to say, I read an article recently (which I can't find now) that high efficiency panels may make a come back, and that fits with what you've posted.

Now that the cost of the panels is quite small, then it might be worth choosing higher performance panels, say 22% v's 17%, even if it doubles the cost of the panels, as the percentage increase in total cost should be similar to the percentage increase in generation.

This probably works quite well in the UK, now that the 4kWp break point has gone, and that undersizing inverters suits our climate. So perhaps 5kWp of high performance panels, rather than 4kWp of normal in the same space, running through a 3.68kW inverter.

[Edit: Additional thought, my panels are an average of 14%, so I'd get 50% more generation, giving me an insane 6,600kWh pa. And my peak would increase to around 6.3kW, only slightly over my 5.9kW DNO permission. M.]

I wonder if the eu tariffs might be having an impact on the economics here, artificially preventing the less efficient panels falling as much as they should?

Martyn1981

michaels wrote: »

I wonder if the eu tariffs might be having an impact on the economics here, artificially preventing the less efficient panels falling as much as they should?

That's an interesting point. I wonder if they have different tariffs for different efficiencies, if not, that could help high efficiency panels. Looks like they are just about to extend the MIP for another 2 years, but reduce the minimum price to €0.46/Wp ($0.48/Wp).

Around the world the price of PV is knocking on the door of $0.30/Wp, and this article ( I finally found it) suggests $0.40/Wp for the higher normal panels, eg 300Wp, and $0.55/Wp for a 360Wp high efficiency equivalent:-

1 Big Solar Trend to Watch in 2017

lstar337

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Wales’ first solar village opens to social housing tenants

They look nice, but I'm not sure I would be too enthused about electric panel heating.

Seems to me that with a house that well insulated they should have gone with either and ground or air source heat pump. Gas would also be cheaper, if available.

michaels

lstar337 wrote: »

They look nice, but I'm not sure I would be too enthused about electric panel heating.

Seems to me that with a house that well insulated they should have gone with either and ground or air source heat pump. Gas would also be cheaper, if available.

I think I am correct in thinking that the climate change commitments require a move away from using natural gas for household heating and hot water over the 10-30 year time horrizon although as far as I know this has not been communicated to the general public nor policies put in place to encourage such a move?

lstar337

michaels wrote: »

I think I am correct in thinking that the climate change commitments require a move away from using natural gas for household heating and hot water over the 10-30 year time horrizon although as far as I know this has not been communicated to the general public nor policies put in place to encourage such a move?

It was originally set for around now I believe, but they quietly scrapped the idea as it was totally unrealistic. It also only applied to new installations, so no current development would be covered by that.

10-30 years might be the new goal post.

Electric panel heating is still a poor choice though. Even in 10-30 years time (as electric heating is already 100% efficient), as there are no efficiency improvements to be made. Electricity costs are only rising.

Martyn1981

lstar337 wrote: »

They look nice, but I'm not sure I would be too enthused about electric panel heating.

Seems to me that with a house that well insulated they should have gone with either and ground or air source heat pump. Gas would also be cheaper, if available.

Hi. I can't see where it says how the properties are heated, only that it's electrical heating. Where did you find it?

lstar337

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hi. I can't see where it says how the properties are heated, only that it's electrical heating. Where did you find it?

In the pictures in the link you provided. I recognise the heater on the wall, though the name escapes me at the moment.

EDIT: Did you change the link Mart? I thought it was a Guardian link before?

lstar337

Looks like it is one of these: http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/panel_heaters/metal_fronted_xx_range/index.htm

Martyn1981

lstar337 wrote: »

In the pictures in the link you provided. I recognise the heater on the wall, though the name escapes me at the moment.

EDIT: Did you change the link Mart? I thought it was a Guardian link before?

Wow, eagle-eyed.

My second post had a Guardian link as there was more detail in it.