Child Tax Credit - awarded it without applying for it!

shedboy94

Allaboard wrote: »

Because I applied for it when child was born and did more day to day care.
That has now changed.
However, because I additionally, financially contribute more each month than the Child Benefit amount I am allowed under HMRC rules to continue claiming it.

Wow, did you quote that straight from the HMRC website?

You will not be paid CTC unless you have applied for it.

It sounds like you are now claiming CTC as well as CB because your ex partner doesn't qualify for it.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4372049

Are you giving her the CTC too?

By claiming CTC you are committing benefit fraud as you do not have the main responsibility for the child.

shedboy94

paddedjohn wrote: »

Why are you getting the child benefit if the child doesn't live with you?

Because the person the child lives with doesn't qualify for CB under the new rules. Possibly legal, highly immoral

Allaboard

My reply seems to have disappeared. Here's the gist of it again.

Thanks for your help.

Morality is only ever subjective. Your morality may not be the same as another persons. Hence the law existing to take away 'morals', emotions and subjectivity and deal with the facts within the law.

I was after advice on what to do about my position having read the award notification again.

I do not wish to be committing fraud, intentionally or otherwise.
If I misunderstood the word 'responsible' then a quick call will sort it out. Although I do feel that technically I am responsible for a child as I am a parent to someone under 16. However, if its a mistake then it's a genuine one. Not trying to cover up, just trying to clarify.

I came to get advice, I now have some. Thanks. However, I can't help but feel a little judged.

xylophone

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/who-qualifies/child-lives-someone-else.htm
If your child lives with more than one person
Only one household can get Child Tax Credit for a child.
You might look after a child who sometimes lives with you and sometimes lives with someone else. You can't both get Child Tax Credit for the same child, so you'll have to decide who should get it.
You can't claim Child Tax Credit if your child doesn't live with you at all - even if you're paying maintenance.
If you can't agree who'll claim
If you can't agree who'll get the Child Tax Credit, both of you should claim for the child. Then the Tax Credit Office will decide for you. They'll contact both of you so that they can work out who has main responsibility for the child. They will consider things that include the number of days the child lives with you, and where they keep most of their clothes and toys.
If you're already getting Child Tax Credit for your child
Someone else might make a claim for a child you're getting Child Tax Credit for. If this happens, the Tax Credit Office may ask you to tell them why you think you have main responsibility for that child.
If you can't agree who should get the Child Tax Credit, the Tax Credit Office will decide for you. You'll still keep getting paid while they make their decision.

The person your child lives with has an income of more than £50,000
If you get Child Benefit for a child who lives with someone else, that person may be liable to the High Income Child Benefit charge. But this is only if all of the following apply:
you give the other person contributions towards the child's upkeep
what you contribute is worth at least as much as the Child Benefit you get for the child
both you and your partner have an individual income below £50,000
the other person has an individual income of more than £50,000

The above seem the relevant provisions?

UsetheFORCE

xylophone wrote: »

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/who-qualifies/child-lives-someone-else.htm
If your child lives with more than one person
Only one household can get Child Tax Credit for a child.
You might look after a child who sometimes lives with you and sometimes lives with someone else. You can't both get Child Tax Credit for the same child, so you'll have to decide who should get it.
You can't claim Child Tax Credit if your child doesn't live with you at all - even if you're paying maintenance.
If you can't agree who'll claim
If you can't agree who'll get the Child Tax Credit, both of you should claim for the child. Then the Tax Credit Office will decide for you. They'll contact both of you so that they can work out who has main responsibility for the child. They will consider things that include the number of days the child lives with you, and where they keep most of their clothes and toys.
If you're already getting Child Tax Credit for your child
Someone else might make a claim for a child you're getting Child Tax Credit for. If this happens, the Tax Credit Office may ask you to tell them why you think you have main responsibility for that child.
If you can't agree who should get the Child Tax Credit, the Tax Credit Office will decide for you. You'll still keep getting paid while they make their decision.

The person your child lives with has an income of more than £50,000
If you get Child Benefit for a child who lives with someone else, that person may be liable to the High Income Child Benefit charge. But this is only if all of the following apply:
you give the other person contributions towards the child's upkeep
what you contribute is worth at least as much as the Child Benefit you get for the child
both you and your partner have an individual income below £50,000
the other person has an individual income of more than £50,000

The above seem the relevant provisions?

If the ex can't claim CTC because of high income but has the child 5/6 days a week, it does seem a little ridiculous that you can claim it even though you only have the child one day a week.

The first part of the above quote seems to imply that that is allowed???

AnxiousMum

Between this thread and the other one you have where you state your ex earns in excess of 60K per year - they obviously would not be entitled to ctc's or the cb under the new rules when they come into play. So, while you see 'responsible' as meaning you have a child under age 16, what it is asking (and I'm sure it asks on the form if the child is living with you - and no, one night out of 7 doesn't count as 'living' with, that's visiting ) you think you have found a loophole. It may have been a loophole for CB only, but then with the application for WTC you have inadvertently put all the info required for CTC's as well, despite saying you have left that blank.

You know what - if you want to know definitively whether you are entitled to it or not, give them a call tomorrow - let them know where the child lives, and why the other parent won't be claiming, and they'll advise you. Don't spend any money they've sent you yet - you may need it.

wayne0

LEGALLY... (and this is where this stands)

it is fine to claim CTC and CB if you are RESPONSIBLE for a child.

to be able to claim CB you have to contribute at least the amount of CB towards to childs upbringing... this does not mean giving that amount of £ to the PWC, but includes buying clothes, shoes, food ETC

(so IF your child stays overnight, this is very simple to do.....)

if the child spends one night a week with you, it is deemed that they live with you... and therefore, unless the main carer claims, you can claim...

if the main carer claimed also, they would have the CTC transfered to them (or not considering they are not elegible for them?)

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/start/who-qualifies/children/children-taxcredits.htm#1

If your child lives with more than one person

Only one household can get Child Tax Credit for a child.
You might look after a child who sometimes lives with you and sometimes lives with someone else. You can't both get Child Tax Credit for the same child, so you'll have to decide who should get it.
You can't claim Child Tax Credit if your child doesn't live with you at all - even if you're paying maintenance.
If you can't agree who'll claim

If you can't agree who'll get the Child Tax Credit, both of you should claim for the child. Then the Tax Credit Office will decide for you. They'll contact both of you so that they can work out who has main responsibility for the child. They will consider things that include the number of days the child lives with you, and where they keep most of their clothes and toys.
If you're already getting Child Tax Credit for your child

Someone else might make a claim for a child you're getting Child Tax Credit for. If this happens, the Tax Credit Office may ask you to tell them why you think you have main responsibility for that child.
If you can't agree who should get the Child Tax Credit, the Tax Credit Office will decide for you. You'll still keep getting paid while they make their decision.

it is about whether it is legal. not moral... and this came up recently too... it is legal...

*edit: sorry missed the post above which quoted same info...

FBaby

wayne0 wrote: »

if the child spends one night a week with you, it is deemed that they live with you...

Really, who says? Stating that a child can be living at two different places (ie. shared care arrangements) can't be used as a conclusion that a child spending one night somewhere means they also live there.

Icequeen99

wayne0 wrote: »

LEGALLY... (and this is where this stands)

it is fine to claim CTC and CB if you are RESPONSIBLE for a child.

to be able to claim CB you have to contribute at least the amount of CB towards to childs upbringing... this does not mean giving that amount of £ to the PWC, but includes buying clothes, shoes, food ETC

(so IF your child stays overnight, this is very simple to do.....)

if the child spends one night a week with you, it is deemed that they live with you... and therefore, unless the main carer claims, you can claim...

if the main carer claimed also, they would have the CTC transfered to them (or not considering they are not elegible for them?)

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/start/who-qualifies/children/children-taxcredits.htm#1


it is about whether it is legal. not moral... and this came up recently too... it is legal...

*edit: sorry missed the post above which quoted same info...

Yes but for CTC responsible is defined as 'normally lives with'. So in the example you quote, yes if they split time between two people you could argue the child normally lives with both. I think that would be a struggle when it is only 1 day a week and certainly in cases I have seen HMRC haven't accepted it.

Have a look at the HMRC manual which says: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/TCTM02202.htm “Normally lives with you” is not defined in the regulations, therefore it should be given its ordinary every day meaning of regularly, usually, typically lives with them which allows for temporary or occasional absences' This doesn't describe the OP's situation. It is irrelevant whether the other parent claims, or doesn't claim.

The test works by asking does the child normally live with the claimant. If the answer is YES, and there is a competing claim you consider whether who has main responsibility for the child.

But you still have to consider the first question, even if there is no claim from the other parent.

CB, the OP is entitled to claim because the rules are different.

The best thing for the OP to do is to call the helpline, fully disclose the child only lives with them 1 night a week and see what HMRC say say. Even if the helpline give the wrong advice, it will protect the OP against any later compliance activity.

IQ

Allaboard

UPDATE:
I'm the OP.

May I categorically state: I'm not looking for loopholes. I'm not trying defraud anyone. I did not state the child lived with me.

Please do not make assumptions about me or what I did. I'm looking for advice, not opinion. I'm looking for facts not 'what you think'.

Having said that I did phone the HMRC. I made it quite clear about my change in circumstances and the fact that child is not with me the majority of the time anymore and only spends one night a week with me during term time and more during school holidays. I can only go on what I was told. I was told I COULD continue to claim and was indeed responsible for a child. According to the computer (yes, the computer:)) it was fine to continue.

So, it appears, despite popular opinion on here, it is allowed.

I may phone them again next week and record the call for 'safety and training' purposes to ensure I'm covered.

Thanks for your time.