Real-life MMD: Should we pay to shrink our garden?

Surfer

barginpleasure wrote: »

This should have been picked up on in the conveyancing and you could have said you would only buy the house if the fence was moved before contracts exchanged or your not paying as much because you will loose a bit of garden.
Unfortunately as you say the land is theirs so they can not be made to pay for that. !I would say to them you wont pay for the fence as if it was you, you would do it yourself or as you can appreciate just bought a house money is tight. !No way you should pay.
I would say go back to the conveyancer/solicitor and question why they did not pick up on this and maybe make them pay.

Spot on! Compensation should be claimed from the last owner or estate agent and should not involve the new owner in any costs. If they still do HIPs this should be covered.

zzzLazyDaisy

smff wrote: »

Hi we had a similar issue but with the rear boundary, If you can show that the fence has been in the same place for 12 years you legally have right to the land, and whilst cannot get a full legal title can get partial title.

As you have only lived there a short while I would suggest you could go on the map sites to see how long the boundary has been in situ or ask your neighbour to prove when it was moved. But in my non-legal view get your Solicitor to sort it as he should have spotted it and pay nothing to your neighbour.

That must have been some time ago, as the law relating to registered land has changed. OP you can no longer automatically claim the land, no matter how long the fence has been in the wrong place. The first rule is that the land registry plan is the legally correct record of the boundaries. If you believe that the boundary has changed you can make an application to the land registry to have that land incorporated into your deeds, as a consequence of adverse possession. The land registry then notify the neighbour and they have the opportunity to object. In practice it is normally only if the neighbour ignores the correspondence that the land registry will change the boundary.

But to answer your question - they have a fence that is entirely on their land. They want to move it to another position, still on their land. What they do on their land is up to them (would you contribute to the cost of them moving their shed from one place to another on their land? Of course not).

I would politely decline with a smile.

Although do bear in mind that there is no law that says they have to put a fence up at all. If you have children or a dog, for example, it is your responsibility to make sure they don't go on your neighbour's land. So if they don't have children or pets and they refuse to put a fence up at all, that could make your life difficult. In that case you might want to come to some sort of arrangement with them.

Fujiko

duchy wrote: »

Hmmmm "Just found out" Did she explain HOW and exactly when she just found out ? If she didn't I'd "pop round" all smiley and say your solicitor is asking for this information to look into the issue and also wanted to know how long the fence had been up for...............and see how she reacts.

Once you've gauged her reaction (and hopefully got the info) that's the time to approach your solicitor .

Not sure WHY this is tagged an MMD though -it's a point of law not morality

I agree there is something not quite right here and it is very suspicious that as soon as new neighbours move in she finds out that the fence is in the wrong place. I suspect that this may have been an issue with the previous owners which could have been why they decided to move - perhaps there had been some unpleasantness - but if so you should have been told. It is not clear how large this piece of land is and whether it is at the side or the end of the garden. Do nothing until you have checked the information given by the previous owners and certainly do not hand over any land. The crucial point is surely just how long the fence has been in position. Good relations with neighbours are important but so it is to establish that while happy to be reasonable you are not a soft touch!

Surfer

The other thing of course is that the current fence is entirely on the neighbours land and if you attempt to remove it, technically you are trespassing and stealing their property.

ochitsmee

Total sympathy with situation and angry too. DEFINITELY it is solicitor's responsibility so you should go back to them, at NO EXTRA COST because they have NOT completed their obligation and didn't complete their search of what was being sold. Boundaries are a big deal and are usually self-evident on the documentation. Perhaps new neighbour has been trying for years to get this dealt with and the vendors thought that the problem would go away when they did! At least new neighbour was pleasant when asking. Not a good start to neighbour relations though!

Land_Registry

Land Registry cannot advise or comment with regards whether you should pay for any works to be undertaken - however later posts have widened the issues somewhat and it may be helpful to consider the following as a result

Boundary questions - take a look at our FAQs on boundaries which will shed some light on issues re responsibilities. Much of the information provided will match some of the above posts but it is important to note one thing in particular, namely that there are no hard and fast rules as to who is responsible for what e.g. left/right, panel/post side etc.

On the wider issues around adverse possession you can also read our online Practice Guides 4 and 5 although I suspect PG4 is most relevant if both properties are registered. These guides are written with conveyancers in mind. PG4 Section 2 in particular explains how the regime for dealing with such matters changed in 2002 and how 10 years and not 12 may be a more relevant timescale.

The FAQs and PGs are to a large extent as far as Land Registry can advise - we cannot provide legal advice and it is quite possible, especially if the matter cannot be resolved, that this would be your best course of action.

As ucfadll points out a conveyancer would not view/visit the property but would usually rely on the client to check the registered extent against that being sold. If you have a mortgage lender then this is also something to be considered?
Similarly IF a dispute already existed over the boundary and/or the land in question then the Seller and their conveyancer would have had a duty to disclose this - your own conveyancer would be able to advise on this and the implicaitons of not doing so. If they failed to do so then this may affect how you seek to try and resolve things.

Our advice would always be to try to compromise or seek an agreement over who is responsible for what when it comes to boundaries. This is explained in the FAQs and other online material.

If there is a discrepancy between the registered extent and what exists in reality on the ground then this should also be resolved although how this is done is very much dependant on the parties involved.

For example if the boundary has been in place for longer than 10 years then the neighbour may wish to consider claiming it, which would be their own application - if successful this would solve the registration issue but in all likelihood not the responsibility aspect of the boundary itself.

However if the term is for a much shorter period other solutions may exist but establishing the facts re timelines, previous actions etc would be recommended and then taking legal advice as to the options available to you (and to some extent your neighbour). Such disputes can indeed be very costly but as you are now aware/involved the same issues will exist should you or your neighbour come to sell in the future of course.

dannyboyroberts

Not sure if this applies, but I read somewhere that if you take ownsership of a piece of land for more than 7 years, and the owner does not dispute it in that time then you can ask the land registry for ownsership.

I would contact them and explain the situation, they will tell you who it belongs to now.

But even so, they are gaining land so they should pay it.

BrianDrewitt

The solicitor who acted for you in the purchase of the property was negligent in not checking with you that the existing dividing fence to the neighbour corresponded to the boundaries on the title deeds at the Land Registry. This is a routine matter which he (or more probably some junior minion in his office who in practice dealt with the conveyance) should have instigated.
Suggest to him, politely of course (!), that this is a matter which he must resolve with the neighbour and that, if necessary, you would be very happy to refer the matter to the Law Society.
Don't let yourself be intimidated by a solicitor - they are both notorious for their inefficiency and famous for their subsequent cover-up attempts.
Good luck,
Brian

zzzLazyDaisy

BrianDrewitt wrote: »

The solicitor who acted for you in the purchase of the property was negligent in not checking with you that the existing dividing fence to the neighbour corresponded to the boundaries on the title deeds at the Land Registry.
Brian

Before you do this, re-check the correspondence that you received from your solicitor during the course of the transaction. Most solicitors have a standard letters which include advice to satisfy yourself that the physical boundaries of the land correspond with those shown on the title deeds.

allan1234

as it is their fence they are legally bound or its up keep and for where its put make sure that you have the right measurements before they move it:)