Giving house to Me!

margaretclare

This is a discussion that comes up time and time again on this site. I agree, essentially, with IrishJohn on page 1 and I suppose I could be called 'centre-right' too.

DH and I have both 'worked all of our lives' as people are so fond of saying. From school-leaving at 16 in 1951 to 2002, and that gives an indication of our age-group. We've both paid in. We can't say we 'never had anything out' because we both had children and their births were funded by the NHS, their education paid for by the state. I had more out than DH because I was paid a full grant as a mature student, something that modern students don't enjoy. My first husband had years of ill-health and received sickness benefits, but he didn't survive long enough to draw retirement benefit. Whether he was 'owed', or not, balancing one kind of benefit against another, is arguable.

What DH and I are in accord about is that whatever we have should be used for our comfort, choice and convenience. I don't know of anyone, personally, who 'never paid in and gets it all for free', but I do occasionally see a mention of this happening in the more sensationalist press. However, even if it were possible to give away all that we have, it would not stop these headline-grabbing cases from happening, and we should have deprived ourselves for no good reason.

The OP's father wants to do this but leaving all other arguments aside, it's not possible. Basically that was all she was asking.

Mojisola

joanne1971 wrote: »

i will make sure he gets through it in comfort.

If he gives you the house and you use the money to pay top-up fees for him and your mother, what's the point?

If they were deemed not to have sufficient funds to pay for themselves, all their income bar about £23 a week will be taken to help towards care home fees. You will be committed to paying the top-up fees regardless of what happens in your life - unemployment, ill-health, accidents, early death. What arrangements have you made in case you die before your parents? Who will pay the top-up fees then?

If they have the capital from the house and become self-funding, they will keep all their pension and could be entitled to pension credit and almost certainly attendance allowance. They then only have to draw down from their capital the difference between their income and the home fees.

zzzLazyDaisy

I have my own place. I am disabled and have a full-time carer. There is a high possibility that I may one day need care in a home. At that point my house will be sold and the money used to pay for the home of my choice, I will keep my pension and any disability benefits that I am still entitled to, and this will ensure that I will still have a decent quality of life, and enough money to buy what few things I might need/want to make my life comfortable.

My son and grandchildren will get whatever is left when I have shuffled off. They certainly wouldn't want it any other way, and have told me this on numerous occasions.

Errata

Something that is rarely mentioned when this subject crops up is what was the value of the property when it was bought? Thirty years ago a house in London could be bought for £35k; people could choose to buy a house or rent one - the mortgage payments over time would add up to far, far less than rent would.
If the house has gone up in value, the owners didn't make that happen - inflation did. All the owners had to do was sit in it and watch it's value grow without any effort on their part short of a few rolls of wallapaper and tins of paint.

Mojisola

Errata wrote: »

Something that is rarely mentioned when this subject crops up is what was the value of the property when it was bought? Thirty years ago a house in London could be bought for £35k; people could choose to buy a house or rent one - the mortgage payments over time would add up to far, far less than rent would.
If the house has gone up in value, the owners didn't make that happen - inflation did. All the owners had to do was sit in it and watch it's value grow without any effort on their part short of a few rolls of wallapaper and tins of paint.

My parents benefited massively from this. They bought their house for about £10k. It was a struggle for them, taking into account their wages and the interest rates at the time, but they scrimped and were able to pay the mortgage.

The house is now worth around £170k and is on the market so that Dad's care home fees can be paid.

They did work hard to pay the mortgage but they didn't "earn" the £160k difference in price - it just happened.

atush

All moral judgments aside, you have your answer. Giving you his part of the house now he has been diagnosed would be deprivation of assets. he could have before, but it is now too late.

So, when he needs to go into a home, sell the house. Split the money into 2 pots and each parent can be self funding. They will not (as far as I am aware) be made to spend every penny. Once their assets get down to a certain level (ie the amt they are each allowed to have) they will no longer have to pay for all of their care.

In the meantime, if they are both self funding, you can invest that 200 quid a month you are paying towards your mother's care in JISA's for your children- this can form their inheritance.

Then you and your brother can split what is left in your parents accounts when they are gone-your inheritance. Those scroungers you talk about leave nothing behind for their children as they have no 'pots'.

If your father wants to change his will in your (or your children's favor), then take him to the solicitor. It may be too late for him to do that as well, due to his diagnosis but this is something for him, his doctor and the solicitor to decide.

jetplane

You need to see a solicitor who specialises in community care, not your local wills, divorce and house buying one. You need to look at the factsheets on AgeUK website.

If a house transfer is made the LA will assess his ability to pay for his care, they have discretion to decide whether the transfer was made with intention, but they will decide that he has deliberately disposed of his assets, especially in today's climate of local government cuts and it is then that you have the problem.

I would think that it is too late, he has already been diagnosed and you have power of attorney. Have you looked at your responsibilities as POA? Can he transfer the house to you now that you have this power? You could end up in a right old mess.

So you want his inheritance and you're keen to take your brothers share too, however the law states that you can not dispose of your assets and expect the government to pay, unless you do it early or find a loophole. Personally I would be using those assets to pay for the best care that my parents could receive, once the money has ran out the government will then pick up the tab and your mother has probably already received more than your dad ever paid in.

le_loup

jetplane wrote: »

I would think that it is too late, he has already been diagnosed and you have power of attorney. Have you looked at your responsibilities as POA? Can he transfer the house to you now that you have this power?

No, the attorney can only have the interests of the father in mind when making ANY decision on the use of the assets.

Mojisola

atush wrote: »

They will not (as far as I am aware) be made to spend every penny. Once their assets get down to a certain level (ie the amt they are each allowed to have) they will no longer have to pay for all of their care.

They will be funded by the LA once their capital reduces to £23,5000.

Be aware that the LA will only fund to a level that they set. If the home they are in costs more than that, someone else will have to pay a "third party top-up". If no-one can do this, they may have to move to a cheaper home.

BobQ

sparrer wrote: »

I've worked in the elderly care profession all my life so they understand what can befall people when they get old and unwell, and have seen many money-grabbing relatives try to keep savings or proceeds from the sale of properties for themselves.

I do not doubt this is true but I give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not just using the site to peddle a political view rather than to give advice.

As I posted above, my father had a very similar view to the OP's fathe, he did not have dementia, he trusted his children to look after his best interests and thought it outrageous after all he had paid in tax that the state did not pick up the bill for care homes. I am not saying I agee with the view but some people do hold the view.

I agree that there are some very manipulative children out there but this thread is not really intended to make such judgements.Its to give advice. We can all step over the line on occasions but that does not make it right.