Schueller kitchen

Furts

Doors are solid oak as are pelmets and cornice. Carcasses, shelves (that is pieces not immediately visible) are chipboard (like most carcasses but you want dense and moisture resistant at 18mm thick). All chipboard has been veneered in matching oak, Boxes and hinges can be from e,g, Blum.

If the margins were not huge I would not have been able to purchase mine for the price. Bear in mind, made in a workshop by a workforce of perhaps 3 people in UK, does not come cheap

Just in case you are doubting... my first choice was a good UK made kitchen out of a large factory in Yorkshire. These are widespread. This was notably cheaper than a handmade (economies of scale and manufacturing)...and was even cheaper than (the previously named DIY store -who I repeat I have no issues with!)

If you are serious with your querey of my purchasing... what do you think the margins are for example on bathrooms or replacement windows? Basically, do you really know or are you testing me?

leveller2911

Furts wrote: »

Doors are solid oak as are pelmets and cornice. Carcasses, shelves (that is pieces not immediately visible) are chipboard (like most carcasses but you want dense and moisture resistant at 18mm thick). All chipboard has been veneered in matching oak, Boxes and hinges can be from e,g, Blum.

If the margins were not huge I would not have been able to purchase mine for the price. Bear in mind, made in a workshop by a workforce of perhaps 3 people in UK, does not come cheap

Just in case you are doubting... my first choice was a good UK made kitchen out of a large factory in Yorkshire. These are widespread. This was notably cheaper than a handmade (economies of scale and manufacturing)...and was even cheaper than (the previously named DIY store -who I repeat I have no issues with!)

If you are serious with your querey of my purchasing... what do you think the margins are for example on bathrooms or replacement windows? Basically, do you really know or are you testing me?

If you are happy with your kitchen then that is the main thing and all that matters.As you say making a product in volume is cheaper so a bespoke hand built kitchen will cost a premium compared to a standard off the peg kitchen from a large outlet.
What I can say is that the margins on kitchens from the major suppliers is small, in fact some like Howdens will make as much profit on some of the doors they supply as they make on their budget kitchens.

Windows,doors and kitchens are similar as the prices are always affected by making/selling volume.Its a personal thing but in my opinion Blum don't make the best hinges and chipboard carcases are not top spec, chipboard is very cheap but as I mentioned the only thing that counts is that your happy with it.I would question what you say about your handbuilt kitchen being £10-15,000 cheaper than Wickes as I make handbuilt kitchens and they never work out cheaper than Wickes,Howdens,Magnet etc and tend to be at least double the price.

evokit

most solid doors (so to speak) have a veener center panel, very few dont, not due to quality levels but as solid panels can butt the joints out of the rails over time.
Leveller - wold be interesting to know who you feel do do the best hinges considering many bespoke companies (who use MFC + MDF poss veneered, but not often) use blum.
The only other really on par is Hettich and most companies i use whom supply both always refer to upgrade to blum, and this isnt on a cost front either.
Grss offer some nice stuff on the hinge front also

leveller2911

evokit wrote: »

most solid doors (so to speak) have a veener center panel, very few dont, not due to quality levels but as solid panels can butt the joints out of the rails over time.
Leveller - wold be interesting to know who you feel do do the best hinges considering many bespoke companies (who use MFC + MDF poss veneered, but not often) use blum.
The only other really on par is Hettich and most companies i use whom supply both always refer to upgrade to blum, and this isnt on a cost front either.
Grss offer some nice stuff on the hinge front also

Hi Evo, I guess its down to personal choice but I prefer Grass as they have better adjustment and the integrated self closing mechanism has 2 closing speeds which are adjusted with the turn of a screwdriver makes it a good all round nice neat hinge .Technology moves so fast now that in 12 months time what we regard as the best hinges will be old technology:D.I use to buy from Hafele but Wurths sell them now and they are cheaper..

We generally make solid timber panels rather than vaneered, as you say there can be issues with stability but TBH we haven't had to replace any doors for years, keeping the moisture content stable is the key.I suppose the marketing by companies is key, MFC is cheap as chips, MDF more expensive but very few use solid timber for carcases, mostly down to price and stability.I made one a few months ago where the customer insisted on solid tulipwood carcases with a spray finish but you wouldn't know it was not MDF once sprayed.IMO a quality carcase would be constructed from timber vaneered MDF(4 coats of Lacquer) or melamine faced MDF at the very least but chipboard isn't top drawer material.

I do hear alarm bells ringing when I hear cases where a handbuilt kitchen is £10k-15k cheaper than a shed.

You had any call for the Grass Sensomatic drawer runners?, apparently they are "inteligent" , you tap the drawer and they open. You just need a processor,dongle and electric supply.... whatever next..:D

evokit

senosomatic - no call for
just tell them the cost (onsidering this is a money saving site) they rather use there hands haha.
blum launched the integral hinge, think beofre grass, its nice..have a look, also the touch open.
i agree you cant get hand built less that diy stores, if you can id like to know haha.
diy stores are the low end of the market with door quality and carcass. i know there mfc can be the same label as other mfc's but the density isnt the same hnce qquality diff.
mdf carcass is better always. i work with bespoke companies that are very high up and they also use mfc. i 100% know that there carcass will be a diff ball game to a council howdens or a shed bnq.
if yourself do bespoke things inbox me

speak soon

cddc

leveller2911 wrote: »

Furts wrote: »

Hi Ferdie123, My kitchen was superior and undercut Wickes by perhaps £10-15000.

I would love to see photo's of your kitchen and it was £10,000-£15,000 cheaper than Wickes sounds almost too good to be true.;)

To be honest that does sound too good to be true...at Winter Sale price...at pre Christmas "Giveaway Sale" price it is all too likely to be true....but not now;).

Furts

Interesting comments and observations that moved away from OP

What has not been picked up on, or perhaps I did not make clear, was I was happy to have a factory made kitchen.When the order was placed it could not be honoured - the range had been discontinued (as had the other alternatives the factory offered us- bizarre!)

So the merchant got one hand made to what had been agreed. I did not request solid timber carcasses nor mdf - it was like for like. But being "hand made" gave an opportunity to change spec on eg hinges etc.

Wickes price was only slightly lower than a kitchen shop in a nearby town IIRR (maybe £3000?) Of relevance is their quote and that of some others was absurd. I suggest, dare I say it, rip off or take advantage of?

End result my units undercut by £10000+ And yes I know, to an extent you get what you pay for!

Perhaps a topic for another post is what is a genuine price for a kitchen...?

leveller2911

Furts wrote: »

Interesting comments and observations that moved away from OP

What has not been picked up on, or perhaps I did not make clear, was I was happy to have a factory made kitchen.When the order was placed it could not be honoured - the range had been discontinued (as had the other alternatives the factory offered us- bizarre!)

So the merchant got one hand made to what had been agreed. I did not request solid timber carcasses nor mdf - it was like for like. But being "hand made" gave an opportunity to change spec on eg hinges etc.

Wickes price was only slightly lower than a kitchen shop in a nearby town IIRR (maybe £3000?) Of relevance is their quote and that of some others was absurd. I suggest, dare I say it, rip off or take advantage of?

End result my units undercut by £10000+


So it sounds like your kitchen was going to be a standard factory made kitchen, but the doors were discontinued so the merchant had one made. It sounds like you have standard carcases as the "hand made kitchen " is "like for like" as the original one quoted for with new doors. There is very little difference in prices regarding the prices of hinges and drawer runners.The difference is probably 20p a pair.

There is no comparison between the cost of standard kitchens and bespoke hand built so either the merchant has lost money in supplying you a hand made kitchen(very doubtful) instead of a standard factory built one or he has sold you a standard factory built kitchen as a "bespoke hand made " kitchen (probable).There are many companies out there who will supply units only and others who supply doors only.A shop can buy units,buy doors and supply the kitchen.Without seeing the kitchen its impossible to tell which but I will say a handbuilt kitchen will cost 200,300,400% more than a standard off the peg factory built kitchen, they are never cheaper.

Furts

Hello leveller 2911.Looks like we are getting pedantic here-I have nothing to gain from a forum tiff and you have a business to run.

A relevant point may be this. The merchant said the carcasses were made in a workshop, the workshop said the carcasses were made in their workshop. So I believe them. Somebody made the solid oak - whether the workshop made it or the workshop bought it in is no concern to me. Provided the quality and price meet my requirements I am happy.

As regards ironmongery I simply gave Blum as an example.

If you wish to keep doubting what the kitchen cost so be it...I will not withdraw what is a fact and a forum exists for honest discussion.

CKdesigner

Hi All

I think the confusion is in the term 'Handmade' and different peoples perception of this.

To me 'handmade' is a kitchen from a proper joinery shop, big players in this market would be Mark Wilkinson, Smallbone and the like, typically we are talking £100k kitchens. Then middle ground makes would be Underwoods or Edwin Loxley and then you would hove local joinery shop business dotted all over the country. Typically these companies would make veneered ply carcases and would make all the doors and visible components themselves, buying in drawer runners from Blum or Grass, but you wouldn't see these as they would be supporting a beautifully made solid timber drawer box with dovetail joints.

The problem is to me there are too many people with workshops that as previously mentioned buy in doors from a door supplier and flat pack carcases to screw together in their workshop and then say to their customers these are handmade kitchens.

CK