night storage heaters and obscene bills!

Horseunderwater

Have you switched everything electrical off in the day time and looked to see if the meter is still going round or clocking up usage? If so, someone has plugged themselves into your supply maybe?

luvchocolate

I actually love mine its always warm, plenty hot water, 2 heaters on at the moment use washer on timer through the night, out at work all day and usual stuff at night, all electric with m & S got a bill this week for 3 months £141, so yours is a crazy amount!!
I do hope you get it sorted

Richie-from-the-Boro

ladysunter wrote: »

I am with Spark (not by choice - came as default with my new tennancy and have been rying to ditch them ever since!)

Bill arrived yesterday for past 2 months with ACCURATE and upto Date readings and the bill is £709.43! our home has NO GAS supply and relies on electric night storage heaters.

We run two night storage heaters throughout the night, when they are full they stop using electric (so our electrician assures us) Other than this the house is empty all day through the week and myself and my partner use little electric on a night, tv and a laptop for 3 -4 hours, and that is literally it?

is it the heaters that are at fault, the energy companies calculations? we will of course conntact spark, but thought we would ask for other peoples views/experiences to better arm ourselves

- damper [output] closed tight
- thermostat [input] to suit your needs
- water left alone, but extra lagging if required

Like MJ I agree that tariff and provider stink, you need a minimum of :

- online e-billing account
- pay by direct debit
- put you readings in yourself online every 4 weeks
- and a proper E7 tariff, and an E7 supplier such as Scottish Power

Its not your E7 radiators, its a (1) crappy tariff and a (2) crappy disadvantaged 13 week cash account instead of a 52 week DD payment plan based on your CAC. Best of luck ladysunter.

NOTE : Their own website clearly states ", £200 less per year" if using DD

chris1973

yes, our billl is worked out by adding the night time cost and daytime cost together, night time cost is 9.5p per unit and daytime 21.98p

Your daytime (peak) cost is not unusually high. The Energy Companies make a big deal over E7 electricity, making out that they sell you electricity at a budget rate, but at the same time they hike the daytime peak rate to around twice the cost that non E7 users pay on their standard tariff's in order to claw back some of those savings which E7 users get. In the early days of E7 tariff's the difference between the price of E7 Off Peak and Peak electricity was around double, these days it is three or four times more expensive.

Of course the smart move for E7 customers is to use as much cheap rate Electricity as is possible during the off peak period, in order to deprive the Electricity Companies of being able to claw back the price difference during the day. In reality however, for people who work and have busy lifestyles becoming their Electricity Meters' b1tch and living their life entirely around it, is not an option so using peak rate expensive electricity is usally the cause of high energy bills on an E7 tariff.

I pay just over 20p per KW/H for daytime electricity with Npower, and that is the best tariff for this area, so your daytime price is not that far out, however your off peak E7 rate of 9.5p is ludicrous. Generally they hover around 6p - 7p per KW/H and in essence 9.5p is almost as much as non E7 users pay on a standard tariff.

Then again, Spark Energy do have the worst record on the review sites for customer services and ludicrous prices. Check Out:-

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews199569.html
http://www.sparkenergyreviews.co.uk/reviews/index

I used to put around £90 - £100 a month on Electricity when running a 3.4 and 2.55kw storage heater, and back then the price per kw/h was around 5p, so at nearly 10p per K/Wh (as you are currently paying) then yes the storage heaters could easily use £200 a month just by themselves before your other domestic requirements were added. Expensive, yes, but not the £709 you have been charged.

We run two night storage heaters throughout the night, when they are full they stop using electric (so our electrician assures us)

How much heat the storage heaters hold depends on the input setting, by design they are intended to store their maximum rating for a period of 7 hours, so a 3.4kw rated storage heater will hold 3.4 x 7 = 23.8 kw/h worth of heat which would be charged during the 7 hour E7 period, (assuming the input control was set to maximum) and then output as required during the day (determined by the output setting)

I tested this using a clamp meter based recorder, and found that my storage heater on its maximum input setting drew current for around 6 hours 47 minutes, close enough.

So your Electrician was correct to some extent, on a lower input setting the storage heater would switch off when it was 'full' however on its maximum setting then it would take most of the 7 hour E7 period to get it 'full' and so it would be continuously burning off peak Electricity for most of the 7 hour period anyway in order to get it to its designed storage capacity.

Of course the lower the input setting, the less heat which is stored and so the faster the storage heater runs out of heat when it is called upon to output its stored heat.

The example 3.4kw storage heater I mentioned previously would cost you 23.8kw x 9.5p = £2.142 per night on its highest setting.

If you read the review site that I linked to, you will find many other Spark customers reporting similar experiences of being presented with huge bills, so if I were you i'd be checking every single reading on every single bill i'd ever had from them.

we will of course conntact spark,

You should first contact your Landlord or letting agent, because if its physically stated in your Tenancy Agreement that you HAVE to use Spark then you cannot change without their permission, and doing so would be a breach. Whilst it has been largely determined throughout the industry that LL's should let their tenants use whichever energy supplier they choose, it becomes far more difficult when its actually written into your agreement, as you would normally be told that if you didn't agree to it, then it was your fault for not reading / negotiating the contract properly prior to signing it. You may be able to contest it on the basis that it was an unfair clause, however to my knowledge nobody has actually done this or legally challenged a letting agent for effectively removing the rights of the tenant to freely choose their energy supplier.

Again, if you read the reviews you'll see that Spark are also very good at blocking transfers to other suppliers, with several customers stating that they have been trying to move without success for many months, so you may be better if you are in a 6 month tenancy agreement to see it out and find another property to rent, ideally one with Gas Central Heating or a LL / Letting Agent with fairer terms for their Tenants.

This is also worth a read
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1176943

dogshome

It's worth a check that your Immersion Heater's daytime boost switch has not been left on 24/7

Describing Sparks billing as 'Obscene' is exactly the right word - At the moment they have a tariff that is near to, or at the top of the Comparision Sites, but it's only available to consumers who are not tied in by a clause in their lease

molerat

I am surprised it has not been brought up yet ......... are the day / night readings the correct way round ? Give us some actual meter readings to work on, switch the kettle / tumble drier / immersion heater on and see which register increases. Something about your bill does not feel right.

macman

As above, post your actual kWh usage on each register.
Why are you unable to dump Spark? Those prices are absurd.

dogshome

Did a check on Sparks Double Standards by looking at 'switchwithwhich' on the basis that I had ECO7 heating, using 12500 Kwh a year with average Night use at 55% ( I live in the Eastern region )

Against ladysunters DAY rate of 21.98pence per Kwh, my Spark rate would have been 16.79pence - 24% lower
Against ladysunters NIGHT rate of 9.5pence per Kwh, my Spark rate would have been 5.59pence - 41% lower
On top of which is the Daily Charge which ladysunters hasn't given, but mine would be 18.85pence
Note The prices listed on switchwithwhich include 5% vat, so you must subtract 5% to get a true comparision with the DAY/NIGHT Ex VAT prices you are paying now

I would strongly advise that ladysunter does her own comparision useing
switchwithwhich, but enters her present supplier and tariff as any supplier other than Spark - Then on supplier/prices list, press the Compare tariff icon on the Spark entry - This will bring up the prices Spark charge to anyone, other those chained by a lease in her area

Armed with these figures she should write to Spark, advising them that if they raise any objection whatsoever to her Switching, she will immediately report the tariff differentials directly to Ofgem.
I suspect that faced with this, Spark who are playing a very questionable game, will facilitate her Switch quite quickly

Be nice if ladysunter reports back, so this site's regulars can help other manacled Spark customers

chris1973

The biggest problem in the equation is communicating with Spark. When I was (foolishly) considering a move to them, prior to finding so much bad karma, I waited for 30 minutes for the phone to be answered and this was as a potential new customer wanting pre-sales info. I can't imagine it being much better for existing customers.

Given the sheer amount of complaints about Spark I'm surprised that they haven't been the focus of the BBC Watchdog program. Perhaps its time that their practices were looked at very closely.

Why are you unable to dump Spark? Those prices are absurd.

Because they are forbidden from doing so by a clause in their Tenancy Agreement. This point has appeared several times in various Landlord and Tenant discussion forums, and generally its considered acceptable for a landlord or letting agent to include any additional 'reasonable' clause which they wish in addition to the standard template. This could be anything from preventing the tenant from changing their tariff / meter type to insisting that the tenant pay for the property to be professionally cleaned prior to leaving. It really is that open ended.

If the tenant doesn't agree to any term in the contract then negotiating BEFORE signing the contract is generally the advice. Moaning after the fact is not accepted sympathetically, the reply is generally ' Tough If you didn't agree with it, why did you sign against it'

Of course whether dictating the Tenants energy supplier is determined to be 'reasonable' is another matter entirely. Lots of people say it isn't but i'm still waiting for somebody to link to some actual case history, where these types of clause have been successfully challenged and overturned, and nobody seems to want to be a test case.

Therefore I stand by my pervious advice, that the Tenant should first approach the LL and Letting Agent to get this clause removed / obtain permission to change energy supplier or they may fall foul of their Tenancy Agreement. Chances are Spark won't allow them to transfer out anyway, as no doubt they have also got a copy of an agreement with the LL or Letting Agent.

buglawton

Someone once won a sort of settlement after going to the energy Ombudsman:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/185093/Spark-ignites-battle-over-bills

This sorry thread is a warning to anyone thinking of renting - check first that Spark is not involved, if it is, try to get the agreement changed in advance (which will not work with big landlords).

For some reason this word pops into my mind: Kickbacks.