3 Month Rolling Contract- Still Rolling 18mths Later

SarEl

LadySarah wrote: »

A- your entitlement increases each year worked. Newbies start on 20 + bank holidays.
B- looks like 1 day less for moi.

When i started in Aug 2009 i started on 21days + bank holidays- i left when i was entitled to 23days + bank Holidays.

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. What you used to get is irrelevant. This is what you now get. If that falls below the statutory minimum then that is something you must raise with the employer. And one day less holiday for you is actually ok - provided that the basis for that decision is not unlawful. And so far you haven't shown that it is. If you can manage to find even a hint at that then I can run with it - but not if it's just "not fair". Unfortunately there's a lot of stuff that isn't fair. Doesn't mean it isn't lawful.

SarEl

LadySarah wrote: »

The issue i have concerning security is that they can give me 1 months notice to leave. Yet the rest of my team i belong to (my old team) would need to be made redundant (Highly unlikely to happen) or go down the disciplinary route if they wished to get rid of a member of staff.
.

I would suggest agin that you go and read the link I posted because that explains exactly why they cannot just do this! In vast amounts of detail...

LadySarah

SarEl wrote: »

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. What you used to get is irrelevant. This is what you now get. If that falls below the statutory minimum then that is something you must raise with the employer. And one day less holiday for you is actually ok - provided that the basis for that decision is not unlawful. And so far you haven't shown that it is. If you can manage to find even a hint at that then I can run with it - but not if it's just "not fair". Unfortunately there's a lot of stuff that isn't fair. Doesn't mean it isn't lawful.

I do totally understand what your saying, 1 day doesnt bother me, not saying its unlawful etc. I know what i use to get is irrelevant- its just annoying:mad:
But what i do have to do is work 2 months 1st to able to take 3 days holiday (also stated on my contract)
So i have to work Jan-March... then i can take off 4.8 days (a week in April. And no day before then.

SarEl

But your employers can dictate terms to anyone about when they can or can't take their holiday!

I appreciate that this contract isn't what you want - but what is it that you want? What would you like to try to achieve here - and have you asked for it? If that then doesn't get you any further forward then it seems clear that looking elsewhere is the answer for you. I really am not getting what it is that you think is unfair - apart from life in general. You did start off complaining about the amount of holiday; then the temporary contracts; then the fact that you can't take what you haven't accrued. It isn't that I don't think it's fair enough to be a bit p***d - but what I am struggling with is, is this just a rant? If so, fine. But it's really hard to advise on a rant. As someone else here found recently, you need to be careful what you ask for and how you ask, or you may get it - and it may not be what you expected. So it's kind of hard to be clear what it is you want.

LadySarah

SarEl wrote: »

But your employers can dictate terms to anyone about when they can or can't take their holiday!

I appreciate that this contract isn't what you want - but what is it that you want? What would you like to try to achieve here - and have you asked for it? If that then doesn't get you any further forward then it seems clear that looking elsewhere is the answer for you. I really am not getting what it is that you think is unfair - apart from life in general. You did start off complaining about the amount of holiday; then the temporary contracts; then the fact that you can't take what you haven't accrued. It isn't that I don't think it's fair enough to be a bit p***d - but what I am struggling with is, is this just a rant? If so, fine. But it's really hard to advise on a rant. As someone else here found recently, you need to be careful what you ask for and how you ask, or you may get it - and it may not be what you expected. So it's kind of hard to be clear what it is you want.

No this isnt a rant.
No i do not think life is unfair, i have not stated that. Think life is pretty wonderful to be honest.

All my question was how long can a 3 month rolling contract be rolled for.... you have given that answer- 4 years, which i thanked you for.
I love my job and im VERY good at my job hence why the CEO approached me personally and offered me a job working from a desk within another company. This is something that hasnt happened before within my company hence why i was put on a rolling contract. It is working well for both parties.
You have clearly stated the rights i have- great link btw! Again thank you. That has put my mind at rest.

The holiday issue isnt a major issue either, just thought id add that as its something which is clearly stated on my contract and got picked up by yourself from my original post- i simply replied and it has carried on from there.
All i wanted to know is how long can a rolling contract roll for.

My union have told me to hold back on signing their contracts, and are looking into further.... i thought in the process i will investigate this myself- hence why i am here.

KiKi

SarEl wrote: »

Covered most of this in the link I posted, but.... ermm, Kiki... are you sure about this huge assumption?? (a) the OP said she used to previously get more - not that staff in this job get more if they are permanant and (b) how do you know on what basis the OP is getting less holiday, if she is - there's nothing per se unlawful in giving one member of staff more holidays than another, or less. They would have to show that the basis for this was unlawful.

Didn't read it properly. It happens every now and then, especially close to Christmas.

LadySarah wrote: »

Amazing advice thank you.

You're welcome...

The issue i have concerning security is that they can give me 1 months notice to leave. Yet the rest of my team i belong to (my old team) would need to be made redundant (Highly unlikely to happen) or go down the disciplinary route if they wished to get rid of a member of staff.

...but didn't read my reply well enough! They *can't* do this. You have over 12 months' service, and ending your contract - without a fair, lawful reason and due process - is unfair dismissal. They could only get rid of you in the same way they can get rid of permanent staff.

Looks like you've read SarEl's link now, though, so hopefully that's helped get it clear for you.

You could ask for a permanent contract - point out that with over 12 months' service you have all the same employment protection as permanent staff anyway, so having you fixed term makes no difference. They have to treat you as permanent if they want to dismiss you anyway, so you might as well be!

SarEl

KiKi wrote: »

...but didn't read my reply well enough! They *can't* do this. You have over 12 months' service, and ending your contract - without a fair, lawful reason and due process - is unfair dismissal. They could only get rid of you in the same way they can get rid of permanent staff.

Looks like you've read SarEl's link now, though, so hopefully that's helped get it clear for you.

You could ask for a permanent contract - point out that with over 12 months' service you have all the same employment protection as permanent staff anyway, so having you fixed term makes no difference. They have to treat you as permanent if they want to dismiss you anyway, so you might as well be!

Sorry to keep picking on you today Kiki, but this still isn't exactly correct. It's one of those "potted law" doesn't exactly say it all things, which is why I hate trying to write them. They must treat an employee on a fixed term contract in the same way unless there is an objective justification to do otherwise. They must definitely treat the OP the same as any other member of staff in relation to unfair dismissal and to the right to redundancy entitlements - but they may otherwise be able to terminate the contract at the end of any rolling period (or within one). Whether this may or may not be fair in law would depend on the specific circumstances at the time - and of course is subject to the vagaries of whether a tribunal agreed with them.

KiKi

I think I'll just stop posting today.

SarEl

Just to add an addendum to this, which is almost certainly not going to make the OP any happier... I have just finished reviewing the goovernments changes to employment law surrounding redundancy, which they intend to intriduce on 6th April 2013. It is my view that these changes almost certainly mean that employers will be able to exclude fixed term workers regardless of length of service from redundancy processes providing their contracts are terminated at the end of the contract date and even if there are successive contracts on a fixed terms basis. So providing a current contract is fixed term and has an end date, the employee will not be treated as redundant in terms of redundancy processes or included in the total number of redundancies for legal purposes. That does not, however, mean that qualifying employees will not receive redundancy pay.

This view is subject to the actual wording of the changes which is not yet clear (and to the inevitable several years worth of legal cases that will follow). However, in view of the way in which many government departments use fixed term contracts, it is reasonable to assume that, at the very least, a change such as that I am suggesting would significantly reduce government headaches, and undermine some of the principles established in the relevant legislation to protect employees on fixed term contracts. But it may be a reason for anyone currently over the four year mark to now submit requests to become "permanant".

LadySarah

Hi

Just to give you an update- My contract was terminated as of today. I am now currently working my 1 months notice.

So after 20 months of being on a rolling contract they have terminated it and offered me my old position back 170 miles away. I am not in a position to relocate, i am a single mother of a 15yr child in the middle of his GCSE's.
I am being paid up until the 19th April and nothing more.

Is this all legal? I know there is law change on the 6th April- does that apply to me.