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Full or partial refund
moneybunny123
Posts: 538 Forumite
I'm going to try and keep this short and sweet.
We wanted a new fire and had one in mind. We asked a local firm if they could get this particular fire and we were told they could. The owner of the company came out to our house, measured up, we discussed prices, I placed an order, and we agreed a fitting date. I paid a hefty deposit over the phone the next day.
Roll on the next few weeks and our agreed fitting date (this date was only agreed verbally - I have nothing to prove we'd agreed the date). Anyway, the fitting didn't take place as the product "had not arrived". A week later, another fitting date is arranged.
The day before fitting, the balance was paid in full - as was pointed out to me before I placed the order.
On the day of fitting, the fitter came to our house, removed our old fire then told me he feared that the new fireplace wouldn't fit. The owner of the company arrived with said fireplace and, after re-measuring, confirmed that it wouldn't fit in our hole. He went on to tell me that he would have to return the fire to the manufacturer and they would most likely charge a cancellation/carriage fee of 20%. He added he might be able to get it down to 10% (20% pretty much equates to about £300, give or take).
I rang my husband who was having none of this. He rang the owner and pointed out this was his fault as he'd been out to measure up. The owner replied that it was in his T&Cs (of which we've not been shown or given a copy) that a cancellation fee applies. My husband told him we haven't cancelled the order and that we still want our fire fitting. The owners reply: "it doesn't fit". Husbands reply: "then it's not fit for purpose. Under the sales of goods and services act 1982, I want my money back". Owner: "no you can't, you've cancelled. Husband: "I haven't cancelled the order. Come and fit my fire". Owner: "it doesn't fit!" Husband: "Then refund me my money". The owner then said the "because you're being so c0 cky, the cancellation fee has now gone up to 25%". So, even if it's in his T&Cs, surely he can't then change the amount! One minute it's 20%, then it's 10%, then it's 25%! The owner used very colourful language and was agressive and threating to my husband over the phone
We've logged a complaint with Trading Standards and their advice was to write to the company to ask for a full refund and give a "reasonable" deadline.
So far, no reply. The company has not been in touch and at the moment has all of our money and the products we paid for, and as far as we know, has now closed for the Christmas period.
Just wondering what everyone else's opinion or advice would be on this... (please try not to give retrospective advice. I realise now I should and shouldn't have done a lot of things...like place the order with them in the first place!)
We wanted a new fire and had one in mind. We asked a local firm if they could get this particular fire and we were told they could. The owner of the company came out to our house, measured up, we discussed prices, I placed an order, and we agreed a fitting date. I paid a hefty deposit over the phone the next day.
Roll on the next few weeks and our agreed fitting date (this date was only agreed verbally - I have nothing to prove we'd agreed the date). Anyway, the fitting didn't take place as the product "had not arrived". A week later, another fitting date is arranged.
The day before fitting, the balance was paid in full - as was pointed out to me before I placed the order.
On the day of fitting, the fitter came to our house, removed our old fire then told me he feared that the new fireplace wouldn't fit. The owner of the company arrived with said fireplace and, after re-measuring, confirmed that it wouldn't fit in our hole. He went on to tell me that he would have to return the fire to the manufacturer and they would most likely charge a cancellation/carriage fee of 20%. He added he might be able to get it down to 10% (20% pretty much equates to about £300, give or take).
I rang my husband who was having none of this. He rang the owner and pointed out this was his fault as he'd been out to measure up. The owner replied that it was in his T&Cs (of which we've not been shown or given a copy) that a cancellation fee applies. My husband told him we haven't cancelled the order and that we still want our fire fitting. The owners reply: "it doesn't fit". Husbands reply: "then it's not fit for purpose. Under the sales of goods and services act 1982, I want my money back". Owner: "no you can't, you've cancelled. Husband: "I haven't cancelled the order. Come and fit my fire". Owner: "it doesn't fit!" Husband: "Then refund me my money". The owner then said the "because you're being so c0 cky, the cancellation fee has now gone up to 25%". So, even if it's in his T&Cs, surely he can't then change the amount! One minute it's 20%, then it's 10%, then it's 25%! The owner used very colourful language and was agressive and threating to my husband over the phone
We've logged a complaint with Trading Standards and their advice was to write to the company to ask for a full refund and give a "reasonable" deadline.
So far, no reply. The company has not been in touch and at the moment has all of our money and the products we paid for, and as far as we know, has now closed for the Christmas period.
Just wondering what everyone else's opinion or advice would be on this... (please try not to give retrospective advice. I realise now I should and shouldn't have done a lot of things...like place the order with them in the first place!)
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Comments
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How did you pay the deposit (assume card as you mentioned paying over phone) and balance?
If it was credit card then ring your card provider and ask to do a S75 refund - see here for info http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases0 -
How did you pay the deposit and balance?
By Visa Card (debit, NOT credit). We've been in touch with the bank to ask them to cancel the transaction. This couldn't be done - the transaction had to go through - but we were advised to write to the bank will all our "proof" of the order, and the subsequent events and it would go to their disputes team.
We've done this.
I should add that when my husband spoke to the owner and he was quoting his T&Cs, my husband asked him to send us a copy by fax. He didn't do it.
On the day the owner came out to measure up, I signed an order form with the agreed price on, but he didn't ask me to sign, nor did he show me, any T&Cs.0 -
Your doing right by getting a refund via your card including debit cards, and maybe with a few arguments with the bank you will get all the money back.
See the above quick links.
Your husband may like to report the trader to the police for his colourful / threating language.Do you want your money back, and a bit more, search for 'money claim online' - They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring0 -
What you need to do is send this trader a "Letter Before Action", giving him 14 days from receipt of the letter to give you a full refund of £X. Put details of the situation in the letter.
Send it recorded delivery (if you think they'll sign for it), or with proof of postage from TWO post offices (so it's nearly impossible that both won't arrive).
If they don't issue a full refund, then take them to court. It's very simple and done online.
They owe you a 100% refund. Their T&Cs wouldn't stand up in court.
Do not correspond by phone any more. Put everything in writing, so if they phone you, WRITE back to them saying "as per our phone conversation on <date>..."Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
What you need to do is send this trader a "Letter Before Action", giving him 14 days from receipt of the letter to give you a full refund of £X. Put details of the situation in the letter.
Send it recorded delivery (if you think they'll sign for it), or with proof of postage from TWO post offices (so it's nearly impossible that both won't arrive).
If they don't issue a full refund, then take them to court. It's very simple and done online.
They owe you a 100% refund. Their T&Cs wouldn't stand up in court.
Do not correspond by phone any more. Put everything in writing, so if they phone you, WRITE back to them saying "as per our phone conversation on <date>..."
We wrote to them asking for a full refund based on all the events, and sent the letter recorded delivery. According to the track and trace service, it was delivered yesterday. We gave them five working days notice, which we thought was ample...(?)
What makes you say their T&Cs wouldn't stand up in court? What if it specifically says about a carriage fee to return goods? (As I've already said, I've not seen their T&Cs. We asked for them to be faxed on Friday but he didn't send them).0 -
If they don't issue a full refund, then take them to court. It's very simple and done online.
It may be very simple, but is it very cheap? I'm not prepared to go to court unless I'm almost certainly guaranteed to get all our money back.
It worries me because this bloke that we're dealing with is obviously not a very nice guy. If he can get threating and mouthy down the phone, he's not likely to "play ball" is he?0 -
moneybunny123 wrote: »It may be very simple, but is it very cheap? I'm not prepared to go to court unless I'm almost certainly guaranteed to get all our money back.
It worries me because this bloke that we're dealing with is obviously not a very nice guy. If he can get threating and mouthy down the phone, he's not likely to "play ball" is he?
It may be worth recording any calls you make to him or vice versa.0 -
It may be worth recording any calls you make to him or vice versa.
My mum told me to do this, but I just shrugged it off as I thought it was illegal to record someone without their permission/knowledge, and if I did it surreptitiously, surely it wouldn't hold water in court?
Besides, I actually don't think he'll phone us, and we're definitely not going to phone him.
Just out of interest, what happens if he continues to ignore us? (i.e. not reply to the letter, and not issue a refund). Surely that goes against him as a court would view him as being unhelpful or unwilling to resolve the problem? This isn't going to go away!0 -
One more question: this has just occurred to me whilst looking at this website: https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees
As my hubby paid the deposit on his card, and I paid the remaining balance on my card (from a separate account), will we have to make TWO claims (and therefore twice the court costs), or will it be a joint claim as we're married and it's all for the same goods & service?0 -
moneybunny123 wrote: »It may be very simple, but is it very cheap? I'm not prepared to go to court unless I'm almost certainly guaranteed to get all our money back.
It worries me because this bloke that we're dealing with is obviously not a very nice guy. If he can get threating and mouthy down the phone, he's not likely to "play ball" is he?
Yes, it's done online, and to start it off, it's about £40 I think.
I know you've sent him a letter, but you MUST send him one entitled "Letter Before Action", before starting a small claims court procedure. 5 working days isn't long, particularly over the Christmas holidays. See what happens when the 5 days are up, then send ANOTHER letter, this one entitled "Letter Before Action", giving them 14 days to refund you, and telling them that if they fail to do this, then they leave you with no option but to take them to court for the money.
Here's the details of the small claims procedure:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/law_e/law_legal_system_e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm
Their T&Cs wouldn't stand up in court because THEY came to YOUR house and measured up for the fire, and sold it to you on the basis that it would fit, and included fitting in the price you paid. The fact that they measured incorrectly is nothing to do with you, and is entirely their fault, so in theory, they should be paying to put your old fire back in (if it worked!), and you shouldn't be paying them a penny.
Given they've been so rude to you, I'm assuming the only solution to this is a full refund, rather than an alternative product that WILL fit!?Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0
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