Deprivation of assets advice

nigreeves

Can I have the benefit of your advice please.

Approx 4 weeks ago my mothers health started to deteriorate.

She was caring for my dad who is reasonably compus mentus but does not move around much as he has had several strokes and only moves around using a Zimmer.

He has fallen a few times in the last month an lacks confidence to do anything without someone behind him.

Mum was cooking his meals, helping him around the house and generally helping including paying bills etc.

Unfortunately mum died last week and I am now in a quandary re care for dad.

He owns half his house( I own the other half as this was left to me by my mum under a tenants in common will)

Approx one month before mum died we had a discussion re finances and it was agreed that her and dad wanted to gift me £3000 each for this year and last making £12,000. At the time of the discussion there was no suggestion mum would die so it was a straight forward gift arrangement. This money was due to come from savings in dads name.

Shortly we will be having a discussion with the local authority re my dads care. If you take off the £12,000 they gifted to me my dads savings will be below £23,500.

Due to mums sudden death the money her and dad were due to give me did not come through until 5 days after her death despite the fact we applied to release it from savings in dads name approx four weeks earlier.

Do you think that taking this gift now will be regarded as deprivation of assets by the local authority?

At the time we applied for this we had no idea mum was going to die but unfortunately this happened and I am trying to do the best for dad.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

JuneBow

I am afraid that it would look to the LA like a deprivation of assets, even though this may not have been the case. Do you have any proof that this was what mum intended? Letters etc.
The fact that your mum was financially sophisticated enough to do a will leaving you a half share of the house, may also point towards her intention to think about mitigating care home fees for your father.
This may not be what you want to hear, but I believe this is how it may be percieved.

Dunroamin

The money your mother wanted to give to you came from an account in your father's name so, regardless of the timing of this gift, it will be considered to be your father's money.

missile

I am not in a position to offer any advice, but I would like to express my sympathy for your loss.

CKhalvashi

This could get legally messy, so I offer condolences.

You need to get someone on your side as far as this goes. Is there any chance of being able to befriend a local Cllr, see if the story comes up as realistic with them, and then have them attend the council offices for you?

This could be the easiest and cheapest way around this, and it is what we are elected for. The Housing specialist would be the best way of going about this one, if you can find them.

CK

*Chattie*

CKhalvashi wrote: »

This could get legally messy, so I offer condolences.

You need to get someone on your side as far as this goes. Is there any chance of being able to befriend a local Cllr, see if the story comes up as realistic with them, and then have them attend the council offices for you?

This could be the easiest and cheapest way around this, and it is what we are elected for. The Housing specialist would be the best way of going about this one, if you can find them.

CK

Why on earth would anyone befriend a local Cllr? Any genuine local, town or district Cllr will help their constituents without anyone having to befriend them as that is what they are there for. I certainly wouldn't be giving out personal info so an alleged Cllr can attend the council offices for me.

However as you really aren't a genuine local, district or town councillor what on earth would you know about it and certainly none of your stories come up as realistic to me and a few other posters on MSE

somethingcorporate

*Chattie* wrote: »

Why on earth would anyone befriend a local Cllr? Any genuine local, town or district Cllr will help their constituents without anyone having to befriend them as that is what they are there for. I certainly wouldn't be giving out personal info so an alleged Cllr can attend the council offices for me.

However as you really aren't a genuine local, district or town councillor what on earth would you know about it and certainly none of your stories come up as realistic to me and a few other posters on MSE

Wow, I was not expecting something like that!

How is it any different from writing or involving your MP?

CK's advice seems sensible to me.

Errata

CKhalvashi wrote: »

This could get legally messy, so I offer condolences.

You need to get someone on your side as far as this goes. Is there any chance of being able to befriend a local Cllr, see if the story comes up as realistic with them, and then have them attend the council offices for you?

This could be the easiest and cheapest way around this, and it is what we are elected for. The Housing specialist would be the best way of going about this one, if you can find them.

CK

Why on earth are you suggesting the OP befriends a local councillor? They have a duty as elected member to support their constituents.
And why are you suggesting a Housing Specialist? The problem is a financial one, not a housing one.

monkeyspanner

Sorry to hear of yourr loss. It is unfortunate that all the funds were to come from an account in your fathers name as it would have been reasonable to expect him to need care due to his conditions. It is not an insignificant amount of money but it would only delay council involvement in his care home funding by about 6 months.

If the money was to come from your mother and it had not been paid at the time of her death the payment should have been frozen and formed part of herr estate.

As your mother was looking after your father I think it could be argued that there was no reasonable expectation of her needing care and therefore a gift within the CGT limits from her was ok however because the funds came from an account in your dads name will be seen as a deprivation of assets.

The council are able to recover funds from yourself if the gift is made within 6 months of yourr dad needing care. Your dad's 50% of the house will also be assessable and the council may well seek to put a financial charge on the house.

If you can persuade the council to ignore the gifts your dad could apply for a 12 week disregard of the value of the house to allow time to market the property. Or you could request the council pay the fees and set the cost against the value of the house (deferred payment). There is potential advantage in this in that council fees for care homes are likely to be lower than the equivalent self funding fees and deferred fees not not attract inteerest payments.

troubleinparadise

Sorry to hear about your loss of your mum so suddenly.

Approx one month before mum died we had a discussion re finances and it was agreed that her and dad wanted to gift me £3000 each for this year and last making £12,000. At the time of the discussion there was no suggestion mum would die so it was a straight forward gift arrangement. This money was due to come from savings in dads name.

Perhaps I am just misunderstanding your post, but it sounds as though what you are describing is a sum of money akin to the gift allowance for tax purposes - "£3000 each for this year and last".

If your parents gifted you those types of sums of money annually then it might be that the making of this gift, despite its unfortunate timing, could be seen as a regular gift out of taxed income that just continued a normal pattern if there is an assessment of your father's finances for residential care.

Savvy_Sue

nigreeves, I am sorry for your loss.

troubleinparadise wrote: »

Perhaps I am just misunderstanding your post, but it sounds as though what you are describing is a sum of money akin to the gift allowance for tax purposes - "£3000 each for this year and last".

If your parents gifted you those types of sums of money annually then it might be that the making of this gift, despite its unfortunate timing, could be seen as a regular gift out of taxed income that just continued a normal pattern if there is an assessment of your father's finances for residential care.

There's no suggestion, however, that this was a regular thing: the very fact that two payments from each parent were made at the same time indicates the opposite, to my mind.