Partners medical appeal took 6 months, turned down and told to prove what they claim

donny909

Doubt anyone remembers this but we put in my partners appeal against her ATOS medical to award her zero points 6 months ago. There were many downright lies that took place, things that was reported to have happened and claimed in the medical etc that never happened or took place. Anyway after a good 6 months waiting time she finally hears back today. They seem to be standing by ATOS for some crazy reason even though they can see and get proof of both medical conditions and confirmation that ATOS lied via lack of proof of something ATOs have claimed.

1 of ther main, and I feel very important points on the appeal is that it's on record with IS and confirmed by IS themselfs that ATOS informed IS that they had written to my partners doctor to ask for her medical records as part of the medical process. This it could be assumed in part could have been used as the main basis to award her zero points in the absence of those medical records. But in all honesty I doubt this would have really have made any difference and even with those medical reports the end result would have probably been the same anyway.

Now we pointed out in the appeal that we had it confirmed at least 4 times, twice by 2 seperate secretaries and twice by the doctors themselfs at no point had ATOS ever been in touch with the practice to request any such information or any information at all reguarding my partner at any point. We also pointed out in the appeal that my partner was more than happy for the appeal board to contact her doctors practice to confirm this request never took place and gave permission for this request for confirmation to take place knowing fully well they would be unlikely to simply take her work for it.

We also asked the appeals board to contact ATOS to get confirmation and proof of this request for medical notes having gone out as per the ATOS medical process and on record that ATOS have told and claimed to IS thats just what they did do. Because if they never then they have both lied and not followed the correct procedure for doing the medical and on that basis alone (and citing ALL other incorrectly reported results on the medical to) the decision should be reversed in my partners favour and ATOS found to have incorrectly carried out the medical process on my partner.

On the point of the ATOS claim that they contacted the partners doctor to obtain her medical notes and claimed to IS they had no responce. The appeal responce is saying ATOS have been unable to backup the claim or provide the records or any proof that they they did contact the doctors for medical records to the appeals board. But they have very strangely said they are placing the onus of proof on my partner to prove ATOS never sent the request out to the doctors for the medical notes even though the appeals board could not get the proof of the records off ATOS they did send a request out.

This is stupid, ATOS have made a false claim and lied and thats on record, the doctors have said if contacted they will confirm this, the appeals board said ATOS cant find the records to show they did request the medical notes yet my partner is the 1 asked to prove ATOS have lied when it's obvious to the appeals board that ATOS must have lied as the records have gone missing and the doctors have claimed they have had no contact off ATOS.

Any advice as this must be grounds alone to prevent it going the the tribunal they have now refered it to?.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Wouldn't it be easier to obtain the evidence yourself and proceed on the basis that you have evidence to show her meeting x, y and z descriptors?

rogerblack

I am assuming that what's happened is that a reconsideration has failed, and your case will now proceed to tribunal.

The decision will only generally be changed if it is clearly wrong - not if it's just arguable.
Specifically - a missing request for the medical records (which could have gone missing in the post to the doctors, or been mislaid by them), is not important evidence.

They will generally never, ever request medical records, they send a form to request the GPs opinion on the persons abilities and conditions.

Can you clarify.
There is no such thing as 'the appeals board'.
Are you corresponding with the tribunals service, or the DWP decisionmaker?

Did you request a 'written' tribunal - to examine the evidence?
If this has gone ahead, and this is what you mean has turned you down, you have sharply limited grounds to appeal.

donny909

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Wouldn't it be easier to obtain the evidence yourself and proceed on the basis that you have evidence to show her meeting x, y and z descriptors?

Well yes, I guess so and probably will but is that really the point if ATOS have not followed the correct process in the first place when the person having the action placed on them has to?. It's becoming a case of we are expected to accept the failings of ATOS and just accept what they do and there resulting decision even when there is clear evidence or lack of to strongly suggest beyond doubt they lie or very often dont follow the precedure they seemingly have to to get there end result more often than actually do follow the correct process?.

rogerblack wrote: »

I am assuming that what's happened is that a reconsideration has failed, and your case will now proceed to tribunal.

The decision will only generally be changed if it is clearly wrong - not if it's just arguable.
Specifically - a missing request for the medical records (which could have gone missing in the post to the doctors, or been mislaid by them), is not important evidence.

They will generally never, ever request medical records, they send a form to request the GPs opinion on the persons abilities and conditions.

Can you clarify.
There is no such thing as 'the appeals board'.
Are you corresponding with the tribunals service, or the DWP decisionmaker?

Did you request a 'written' tribunal - to examine the evidence?
If this has gone ahead, and this is what you mean has turned you down, you have sharply limited grounds to appeal.

Sorry appeals board, well I guess whoever it is that deals with the appeal as we assume it was a board as I guess a number of people will have dealt with some of the reasons in the appeal than just a single person on there own using DWP "guidelines".

My partners responce has come from DWP as a direct responce from the appeal to the medical that went is 6 months ago. Only now has it been forwarded to the tribunals service.

The fact that the doctor has received no request from ATOS is an actual fact that the doctors have and is happy to confirm to DWP but it seems they never bothered to even try and confirm this even though they look to have requested the proof of the request off ATOS and a follow up to the partners doctor may well have given the appeal a different result. Of cause we fully accept this does not directly mean the request never went out but on the balance of probability and that no follow up was sent and neither my partner contacted over the medical information (weather that be notes, records or doctors opinion) should have gone in my partners favour. More so in that ATOS have seemingly been unable to locate, find or supply DWP with any records to show a request did go out that was part of the appeal requested by a DWP decision maker. To me on the balance of probability that request never went out and ATOS lied and have not followed the correct procedure.

I gather it's fairly well known with no medical information provided they will never give a single point to anyone as there is no medical evidence to backup a claiments claims reguardless of how a medical goes.

The claim by DWP that the onus of proof on if a request did not go out from ATOS is now on my partner to prove seems very strange. More so in that it seems DWP did contact ATOS for a copy of the claim and proof of that it did and could not obtain it. So it shows that they have looked into it to have been a viable line of appeal yet has dismissed that angle and shifted the proof when contacting my partners doctor to confirm her claim would have possably forced a different decision as the correct procedure was not followed BEFORE the medical even took place to invalidate the entire medical alltogether.

Two4Tuesday

donny909 wrote: »

I gather it's fairly well known with no medical information provided they will never give a single point to anyone as there is no medical evidence to backup a claiments claims reguardless of how a medical goes.

This is not true at all.

donny909 wrote: »

The claim by DWP that the onus of proof on if a request did not go out from ATOS is now on my partner to prove seems very strange. More so in that it seems DWP did contact ATOS for a copy of the claim and proof of that it did and could not obtain it. So it shows that they have looked into it to have been a viable line of appeal yet has dismissed that angle and shifted the proof when contacting my partners doctor to confirm her claim would have possably forced a different decision as the correct procedure was not followed BEFORE the medical even took place to invalidate the entire medical alltogether.

With all due respect, this is irrelevant to your appeal. If you are to stand any chance at all, you need to focus on the descriptors for ESA that apply and show how your partner meets them. You should arrange yourself for your doctor to provide supporting evidence and send it to the tribunals service in advance. You may have to pay a fee to the doctor for writing a letter, but it may be worthwhile in the end.

Anything else is just whistling in the wind.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Principles don't win appeals. Blaming somebody else doesn't, either.

Gritting your teeth and getting it for the tribunal, as you didn't for the application, is the only real prospect you have of getting the refusal reversed.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

proving that you have proof of lies doesnt even matter with the tribunals process.

yes the DWP could have turned around and said well, because XYZ didnt take place or was requested and this is the basis of the report on medical evidence from GP then should have resubmitted another medical for your OH, if you move forward with this argument in tribunal then this will surely happen, and await a decision based on ATOS and your GP if the decide they would like to have this as evidence for the panel to look at prolonging you decision, and prolonging the worry for yourselfs.

scrap the idea of fighting this apsect in the tribunal but keep it as a show of no confidence for the tribunal process, in other words, your evidence suggests that the report is based on a false GP report, your GP surgery confirms in writing this request never took place, report goes out of the window for the DWP, then the tribunal will look at factual evidence, this is what youve submitted, so you need to go to the GP and ask for supporting evidence i.e a medical report based upon descriptors that are found in the WCA handbook that matches your OH's ailments.

if you have done a thread on here, ill go over to that and look at what you first posted then comeback and add more if needed to try and help.

Muttleythefrog

I would as above advised now focus on this appeal and perhaps deal with any complaint material later. You can at appeal highlight error sin the ATOS medical report if you feel that would help make your case. But your case should be focussed on the descriptors you feel apply and therefore how you will qualify for either WRAG or Support group. Any supporting evidence you can get that such descriptors apply would be potentially invaluable.. and should be sent now to the tribunals service as the DWP appear to have completed their reconsideration now. Important is that the evidence relates to how you are around the time of the DWP decision you arre appealing against... as the tribunal will attempt to re-make the decision independently with all reelvant evidence supplied. Make sure to opt for an oral hearing so you can attend and increase statistically at least the chances of winning.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

I would as above advised now focus on this appeal and perhaps deal with any complaint material later. You can at appeal highlight error sin the ATOS medical report if you feel that would help make your case. But your case should be focussed on the descriptors you feel apply and therefore how you will qualify for either WRAG or Support group. Any supporting evidence you can get that such descriptors apply would be potentially invaluable.. and should be sent now to the tribunals service as the DWP appear to have completed their reconsideration now. Important is that the evidence relates to how you are around the time of the DWP decision you arre appealing against... as the tribunal will attempt to re-make the decision independently with all reelvant evidence supplied. Make sure to opt for an oral hearing so you can attend and increase statistically at least the chances of winning.

muttly im woundering if an error of law has occured if i get what the OP is saying that is.

they made a decision based around 2 elements?, Atos report and GP report refural, and is stated in the that they based this decision on these? if so then the OP has proof that a GP report was never requested, as such there is a error and make this decision on paper unlawful?

im just thinking aloud here OP, im trying to make head and tail of things thats been posted here and in your other thread. perhaps a mod could merge?

Muttleythefrog

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

muttly im woundering if an error of law has occured if i get what the OP is saying that is.

they made a decision based around 2 elements?, Atos report and GP report refural, and is stated in the that they based this decision on these? if so then the OP has proof that a GP report was never requested, as such there is a error and make this decision on paper unlawful?

im just thinking aloud here OP, im trying to make head and tail of things thats been posted here and in your other thread. perhaps a mod could merge?

To be honest often when I read threads like this I have in mind 'the Op is deficient in understanding of the system or in ability to relay facts sufficient to report unreliably yet honestly'.

I would say there is no requirement in the process for them to contact GP... but I would be surprised if it is documented in writing that such was requested and exists and was used. If attempt was made to contact GP then any number of explanations including incorrect details could explain why that failed. If the decision or ATOS report does say GP report (perhaps ESA113) was used/sighted then if the DWP don't produce it then that could be useful at appeal to highlight (assuming the panel may miss this fact). The DWP I would think would excuse such as being an admin error...while ATOS unless their report indicates otherwise would presumably claim they either made request to GP and didn't get timely response.. or never made request... or that request went astray. The fact a full medical was ordered and conducted suggests ATOS did not feel GP advice was appropriate (going to be sufficient) or that it was not forthcoming in timely fashion (but could have been sufficient).

The medical report itself sounds like it was probably full of 'errors'.. not uncommon as we know.. and again I'd be tempted to try to discredit it at appeal (unless the report otherwise is a useful base on which to make claim of various descriptors applying) whilst making case for the descriptors that do apply.