Nursery funded places for 3 year olds

toria27

Hi all,

sorry if this is posted somewhere but have looked and cannot find it. My son is now getting the funded nursery places. He attends full time (always has) and was currently paying £180 a week which workd out at £36 per day.
Now he is getting funded places they have upped the rate to £38 per day over the whole year. The reduced daily rate was for children who attend full time, they also get 2 weeks unpaid holiday a year.

I queried this as I don't understand why I am now having to pay more even though he is still full time, they said he was now classed as having sessions due to free funding. I then asked if this meant he does not get his 2 free weeks a year, I was going to reduce his hours on a friday to save money, they said he still gets this as he is full time. So reducing hours on one day would not save money due to loosing 2 free weeks a year.

It just seems a bit odd, hope I have explained this right and would love some advice.

thanks a lot

bestpud

Maybe the government funding is less per hour than they normally charge?

That's the only reason I can think of.

Seems odd to me as well.

princessdon

Ok let me try to exlain how it works (then you can see what on earth your provider is doing).

The NEG has an hourly rate - Say it is £3.20 per hour - Your Local Aurhority can tell you the rate used, it will be around that figure ish.

Therefore your bill is reduced by £48 per week for term times.

The provider usually gets this money and deducts it so it lowers your fees.

Are they now expecting you to claim this? Is this why they have upped the price (and yes they can if you are not entitled to their FT discount), but it depends on your contract with them.

So in short - Ask them if they are claiming the NEG if so then they need to reduce your fees by the amount they reclaim.

Then ask them why they are raising your fees if the change is not contractual.

lukieboy96

I would definitely query this. I was Deputy Manager of a Nursery and when a child received funding we would work out how much per session and take this amount off your bill. The Nursery would not lose money as they are paid for those free sessions!!! Your child is still full time!!!

Good Luck.

princessdon

lukieboy96 wrote: »

I would definitely query this. I was Deputy Manager of a Nursery and when a child received funding we would work out how much per session and take this amount off your bill. The Nursery would not lose money as they are paid for those free sessions!!! Your child is still full time!!!

Good Luck.

I agree strange practice going on , however, some private nurseries do raise fees slightly as they don't get their NEG money until 14 weeks later. Ie Sept - Dec is paid in January, so some smaller nurseries will charge a bit more. I have always disagreed with this practise as the ratio goes from 1:4 to 1:8 - so financially once they are three you make more money.

Op said they had asked not to do a Friday - so I asumed their child wasn't be to full time if this occured, and so FT discounts can be waived.

toria27

Thanks for all the replies, I did ask them why they raised the rate and they just said it was because it was now sessional to account for dunded sessions (although still full time). I wanted some hard facts if I were to query it again.
I do find it odd, will be very glad from september on only before and after school to pay and any holiday care so should get a nice drop then.

ukjoel

My experience with our nurseries suggest they are very good at bending terms and conditions to suit themselves. Classic example is nursery closing for the year on the 20th this week (when every other business is working a normal business day.)

Getting back to OP I noticed that when we got our 15 free hours they started charging for food at £2 a meal for any session which involved the free hours.

The other point I would make is that if I have a bill query they never seem to be able to explain it as its so complex. I always start by asking the office manager but she needs to go back to the owner and then she needs to double check with the accountants. They dont make it easy for themselves.

We will be very happy when we are not spending twice our mortgage each month on nursery fees.

Firefox1975

I ran accounts in a nursery too.

You are correct, the reason they do it is that the nursery is budgeted to run a fee per hour per student.

lets say for arguments sake this is £5 per hour.

However, the Govt ONLY provide £3.20 per hour for funded students. therefore this is all the nursery is entitled too. (my understanding is they ARE NOT allowed to charge the parents the shortfall) this is what the govt believes a state owned nursery is budgeted to operate on and does not allow an element of "profit" for the owners

but the above only relates to the funded hours provided by teh govt. Therefore if your child attends outside of these funded hours the nursery will attempt to recuperate their losses from the funded hours by charging a premium for unfunded hours outside of the govt jurisdiction.

Just exactly how they do this will be shrouded in calculations that will no doubt befuddle most people.

one of the inherant dangers in allowing privately owned nurseries that attempt to run a business behind an educational establishment!

By the way - my figures of £5 and £3.20 are about right (or were a few years ago) so you can see the profit margins involved.

of course they will also make money on school meals, clubs, swimming lessons and trips out and about.

johnsmiffy

As Chair of a Day Care Centre (Charity run so not profit-led privately owned) I can say that we do not charge extra when children receive their funded hours, and personally do not think settings should charge extra.

The level of funding we receive depends upon how 'flexible' our provision is, and the part of the County we are in - areas of 'deprivation' receive higher amounts. We receive a base amount per hour with the above additions. We charge 82p/hour LESS than the Nursery Education Funding we receive.

ukjoel wrote: »

Getting back to OP I noticed that when we got our 15 free hours they started charging for food at £2 a meal for any session which involved the free hours.

From recollection I do not think a setting is allowed to use NEF for providing meals but the NEF can be used to fund the lunch session. Many settings do include meals when a parent is paying in full, and from my experience those that do include meals charge much more than they would receive from their LEA in NEF.

I know that child care can be seen as a license to print money and, unfortunately, is used as such by some:mad:.

princessdon

The main fact is that OP has been paying £36 per day.

They are already paying that, yet rather bizarely the setting is now getting £10 (just less) a day funding AND putting their prices up.

So the childcare they currently pay has gone to £38 AND they get the £10 NEG, which can't really be right.

I suspect they think OP get's the £10 a day or I really have no idea what they are doing as it's most unusual to get the grant and increase the daily amount.

toria27

Thanks for further replies. I have decided not to question this any further as I find the nursery brilliant and me and my son love the staff their and as he starts school in September it isn't for long. So although annoying as others have said to question it is so confusing, I have spoken to nursery about changing hours slightly one day a week and they have agreed to this and this will save me £57 so very happy about that.
Like someone said will be lovely when childcare costs finally reduce a lot I think I will feel rich then lol.