Deceased Tenant - who is liable?

bananacakes

Hello,

Need some advice on a tricky issue. My step father-in-law died last week. He lived in private rented accommodation and had let the property deteriorate significantly over the past few years - it now requires new carpets and painting. My mother-in-law had not lived with him for over a year but some of her belongings remained in the property. The property was in the sole name of my step father-in-law.

The landlord is asking that we empty the house entirely including carpets and have it cleaned. My mother-in-law is not able to empty and clean the house herself as she is not well and my husband and I are not able to help as we live over 200 miles away and I'm about to give birth any day! There is no one else who can help. We cannot afford to pay for a house clearance company as we have just had to shell out a few grand on flights for my mother-in-law to come back to the UK and also for the funeral (not to mention we have a baby on the way and it's Christmas!)

We have proposed to the landlord that he lets my mother-in-law into the property to collect her belongings and a few items of furniture, the TV etc and then we are asking that the landlord either disposes of or keeps the remaining furniture/all white goods etc and deducts any costs incurred (for house clearance/cleaning etc) from the £600 deposit (which we have said we are more than happy to release to him in full asap) and any money over and above this we have suggested he recoups by making a claim against the estate.

The landlord does not accept this proposal and is saying that if we don't clear the house asap then he won't give my mother-in-law access to the house and he will keep the entire contents of the house to sell and then take us to court over the rest of the money. He maintains that as next of kin we are liable to pay all repairs/redecorating etc.

We do feel for him as the house is a mess but we don't feel we should be liable or that he should hold my mother-in-laws belongings to ransom.

Who is in the right and what is the best course of action in this situation?

jamie11

The estate of the deceased is fully liable for all costs arising. I've had this during the past year, other than finding £310 under the carpet I had no other compensation.

dancingfairy

Not sure who is in the right legally but your suggestion sounded perfectly sensible (apart from a few points).
1) You should not have to clear the carpets. You should leave them in the same conditionthat they were in at the begining of the tenancy (less wear and tear). You should probably get them cleaned but assuming they are just very very threadbare then it's kind of tough and the landlord has to bear the costs of getting a new one.
2) re repair etc. Again the property should be left in a siilar manner to which it was found in (less things like the chairs having less stuffing in them etc etc). Unless the walls have been badly scratched/dented or graffittied etc in some way then I can't see that you/your family or the estate is liable for cleaning.
3) In terms of access then he is holding onto someone elses property and normally can't just chuck it out (although he can write and request it is collected and chargefor suitable storage etc).
It might be best to get some legal advice on this one- perhaps a trip to the CAB or local legal aid centre or maybe you have legalcover through your home insuranceas a last resort?
df

dancingfairy

Is there any money in the estate (seperate to any money you personally have spent) or is it all tied up in the property?
df

SkyeKnight

How long has your relative lived in the house? The landlord is responsible for everyday "fair wear and tear" to the property. If the carpets were over about 5 to 10 years old (depending on quality) then they would need replacing anyway and at the landlord's expense. Similarly it would need painting after several years use. Damage, whether accidental or intentional, would be paid for by the tenant, but not at full cost - it would be a proportion of the cost of the new carpets depending on how old they were.

zzzLazyDaisy

Neither you, nor your MiL are liable for any debts in the sole name of the deceased.

All debts must be cleared before distributing any assets, so if there is money in the estate, then this must be used to clear the debts. If there is no money the debts die with the deceased. The funeral costs take priority and should be paid first.

Your MiL is not on the tenancy agreement so has no right of access to the property. However the LL cannot dispose of her belongings but must keep them safe for collection.

She needs to write a list of all her personal belongings, with as much description as possible to enable them to be identified and make it clear to the LL that these are her personal property and have never belonged to the tenant, and put him formally on notice that she requires the return of her property. If he refuses, she will need to write a letter before action informing him of her intention to commence legal proceedings, and if necessary she may have to go to the small claims court, although without receipts or some other proof they belong to her, she may struggle.

She might want to make an appointment with the CAB as they may be able to negotiate with the LL on her behalf, and/or write a letter for her.

Dx

getmore4less

AIUI

If there is a tenancy executors have right of access(possibly untill they agree an end of tenancy date to stop rent debt accumulating)

Estate is liable for any debts.

If there are assets in the property belonging to a 3rd party they belong to them.

Sometime in these situation it is important to act quickly in/out
especialy if the estate is insolvent and it is not sensible to take on the administration.

bananacakes

dancingfairy wrote: »

Is there any money in the estate (seperate to any money you personally have spent) or is it all tied up in the property?
df

We don't know yet, there are a couple of pensions but need to do some more digging and get a solicitor to handle it all. We know he also has some credit card debt, but there's no will, no life insurance, no savings etc.

SkyeKnight wrote: »

How long has your relative lived in the house? The landlord is responsible for everyday "fair wear and tear" to the property. If the carpets were over about 5 to 10 years old (depending on quality) then they would need replacing anyway and at the landlord's expense. Similarly it would need painting after several years use. Damage, whether accidental or intentional, would be paid for by the tenant, but not at full cost - it would be a proportion of the cost of the new carpets depending on how old they were.

He was there at least 5 years. He actually replaced the carpets himself while he was there but they are really ruined as he had two dogs who weren't very well trained!

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Neither you, nor your MiL are liable for any debts in the sole name of the deceased.

All debts must be cleared before distributing any assets, so if there is money in the estate, then this must be used to clear the debts. If there is no money the debts die with the deceased. The funeral costs take priority and should be paid first.

Your MiL is not on the tenancy agreement so has no right of access to the property. However the LL cannot dispose of her belongings but must keep them safe for collection.

She needs to write a list of all her personal belongings, with as much description as possible to enable them to be identified and make it clear to the LL that these are her personal property and have never belonged to the tenant, and put him formally on notice that she requires the return of her property. If he refuses, she will need to write a letter before action informing him of her intention to commence legal proceedings, and if necessary she may have to go to the small claims court, although without receipts or some other proof they belong to her, she may struggle.

She might want to make an appointment with the CAB as they may be able to negotiate with the LL on her behalf, and/or write a letter for her.

Dx

Would she really need to provide receipts? I thought that the belongings in the house technically belonged to both of them as they were married and now that he has died don't they pass to her?

The landlord is now saying he will put everything in storage until we can pay him what hes owed (he's claiming there is £10,000 worth of damage!!) and that we can get her things back when we also pay for the cost of the storage. Is this legal?!

zzzLazyDaisy

[QUOTE=bananacakes;57959501



Would she really need to provide receipts? I thought that the belongings in the house technically belonged to both of them as they were married and now that he has died don't they pass to her? [/QUOTE]

In the absence of a will, the intestacy laws apply. As this is a small estate, as his wife she will be entitled the the balance of the estate after all debts have been paid. So no, it is not as simple as saying his belongings now belong to her (although joint assets such as joint accounts for example, do not go through the will or intestacy, so pass immediately to the surviving joint account holder). The LL is claiming that money is owed to him and is retaining the the deceased tenant's property until the debt is paid. That is an issue relating to the estate, but she is not responsible for any debts not covered by the estate, so the LL cannot retain her belongings as she was not named in the tenancy agreement. This is why she needs to identify and retrieve her belongings as soon as possible.

G_M

The landlord can claim whatever he thinks he is due from the tenant's Estate.

The Estate can dispute the claim in the normal way.

Other 3rd parties (ie MIL who is not a tenant) have no legal obligation to the landlord.

The LL cannot hold the MIL's property 'hostage' - this is theft.

If there is no will, someone needs to apply to the Probate Service for a Grant of Representation. They can then manage the deceased's debts (and either pay the LL from whatever money the deceased had, or dispute the LL's claim) and, eventually, distribute any money left over.

googler

G_M wrote: »

If there is no will, someone needs to apply to the Probate Service for a Grant of Representation. They can then manage the deceased's debts ....

I realise the OP is in Manchester, according to their profile, but if the rented property does happen to be in Scotland, and therefore the FiL was domiciled in Scotland, different rules and procedures apply.