Voltis Home -voltage optimiser - Anyone actually got one?

jamesperrett

Martyn1981 wrote: »

As I said previously, I've no idea if your GSHP already takes voltage into account, but even if not, I still can't see how related savings can be more than 10% (the difference between the voltages you gave).

Power into a resistive load is proportional to V squared - so I reckon a decrease from 248 to 221 could give just over 20% saving into the right sort of load.

The other issue is that 248 volts is pretty high for a UK mains supply so I could understand that some devices would prefer a lower voltage and perhaps last a little longer.

zeupater

jamesperrett wrote: »

Power into a resistive load is proportional to V squared - so I reckon a decrease from 248 to 221 could give just over 20% saving into the right sort of load.

The other issue is that 248 volts is pretty high for a UK mains supply so I could understand that some devices would prefer a lower voltage and perhaps last a little longer.

Hi James

I've not seen you around these parts before, so a hearty welcome to the mayhem which the G&E (& energy) boards usually represent ...

We're currently being fed at 251.4V but we are pretty close to a main transformer (recently replaced in a shiny new green metal shed at that!) .... anyway, I think that the issue being discussed is more related to the energy consumed related to the power reduction. As such, if there's thermostatic control of an already efficient heat delivery device (pure resistive or otherwise), then any manipulation of the power input must be counterbalanced by an equal shift in the length of the heating cycle ... leaving PF aside, we're talking basic physics (VoltsxCurrentxTime=Energy), so to maintain a consistent result (Energy) any change to one component must be balanced out by the others ...

HTH
Z

Murchison2003

Z
What's the size of an average house in the UK?

zeupater

Murchison2003 wrote: »

Z
What's the size of an average house in the UK?

Hi

Considering that the 3300kWh represents the average energy consumption in a dual fuel house (ie excluding 16500kWh average gas) it becomes a moot point .... what's the difference?, well most likely a couple of light-bulbs here and there and not a lot else as appliances such as fridge, freezer, TV, kettle, hob, oven etc. depend more on occupancy than house size .... as already mentioned, like yourself we live in a much larger-than-average property, however we normally consume just over 1/3 of the national average electricity ...

HTH
Z

Murchison2003

z
I don't have a dual fuel house or alternative heat sourse. I have a large family. Considering the warmer temperatures that have been happening, so i'm told, unfortunately without looking at any stats i think it has been getting wetter hence the increasing use of a tumble dryer. I live about 50 yards from a transformer hence why my voltage is high.
I liked your answer when asked for a reason why the heatpump has been consistant, you don't much care? Should that not be you don't know or don't want to know? Surely if the world is heating up, my heat pump should be running less is that not right?
As for my original post, i answered what was asked and you lot took it and twisted it around. That's another fact.
If you don't mind me asking what are your utility costs per month?
And a simple answer to what is the average size of house please?

ed110220

Murchison2003 wrote: »

z
I don't have a dual fuel house or alternative heat sourse. I have a large family. Considering the warmer temperatures that have been happening, so i'm told, unfortunately without looking at any stats i think it has been getting wetter hence the increasing use of a tumble dryer. I live about 50 yards from a transformer hence why my voltage is high.
I liked your answer when asked for a reason why the heatpump has been consistant, you don't much care? Should that not be you don't know or don't want to know? Surely if the world is heating up, my heat pump should be running less is that not right?
As for my original post, i answered what was asked and you lot took it and twisted it around. That's another fact.
If you don't mind me asking what are your utility costs per month?
And a simple answer to what is the average size of house please?

The annual increase in temperatures is much less than the year to year variability, so the difference between one year and the next is mainly due to variability in the weather. Each year isn't warmer than the last, it's only over many years or decades that the warming becomes apparent. A bit like the warming from winter to summer is real, but between one day and the next the variability in the weather is much bigger... One wouldn't expect each day to be warmer than the last.

Ed

zeupater

Murchison2003 wrote: »

z
I don't have a dual fuel house or alternative heat sourse. I have a large family. Considering the warmer temperatures that have been happening, so i'm told, unfortunately without looking at any stats i think it has been getting wetter hence the increasing use of a tumble dryer. I live about 50 yards from a transformer hence why my voltage is high.
I liked your answer when asked for a reason why the heatpump has been consistant, you don't much care? Should that not be you don't know or don't want to know? Surely if the world is heating up, my heat pump should be running less is that not right?
As for my original post, i answered what was asked and you lot took it and twisted it around. That's another fact.
If you don't mind me asking what are your utility costs per month?
And a simple answer to what is the average size of house please?

Hi

No spin here, just interest and willingness, so in turn ...

1 - "I don't have a dual fuel house or alternative heat sourse" ... as anyone can see, the reference to dual fuel was simply to illustrate that the average 3300kWh(electricity) was for a dual fuel property and therefore excluded the heating provision in order to support the reasonable deduction that after taking your heat provision and a reasonable figure for electricity, the only unusual energy usage which you yourself have offered-up as an explanation, the hot tub, must be consuming around 6500kWh/year ...

2 - "Considering the warmer temperatures... " ... any potential long term change due to global warming/climate change is almost certainly irrelevant in the UK over the period which both the heat-pump and the voltage optimisation have been installed .... just look at the period concerned at the right-hand-side of the following chart .... (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/graphs/HadCET_graph_ylybars_uptodate.gif)

3 - "you don't much care?" .... well, taking into account that the original question related to ambient temperatures warming over the period which doesn't look to be the case (see 2 above) and considering the answer in context was actually "I really don't much care what the reasoning is as there seems to be little intent to consider any alternative logical reasoning anyway" .... but still went on to provide some guesses as to why, ie "the pump is simply undersized and relies on backup heating".

In an earlier post I asked whether you had boost elements within your heat-pump system and whether these were metered through your pump, or simply through your domestic meter. This was a very relevant question, but remains unanswered. If your system is undersized for the property, or if you have insufficient ground loop (which you mentioned was limited by space and may be towards the lower end of the requirement), then it's possible/likely that the elements will be used to top-up the heat provision when the heat-pump is struggling ... of course, if this is happening it will be purely resistive heating and will be at a COP of 1 ... if it's not metered through the heat-pump any overall SCOP will be incorrect, and above all of this, you may not be aware that it's happening. This is not uncommon, there have been a number of reported examples on this and other forums ... If I had an exceptionally high energy consumption profile I'd look to understand exactly what was being used, and where/why it was being used before looking for any overall solution such as optimisation, so the potential for heat-pump booster heating would be a high priority if I'd heard about the possibility .....

4 - As for utility costs, well they're irrelevant as costs vary, but recently we've purchased somewhere around 1250kWh electricity and 1100kWh gas per year, in addition to around 2tonnes of seasoned hardwood logs for a high efficiency burner ... throw in a little pv, solar thermal and solar gain, then a number of years of "insulate, insulate, insulate" and you'll understand how I'm sitting in a property which, like your own, is larger than average and the indoor temperature is 21C ....

5 - "And a simple answer to what is the average size of house please" ... as mentioned previously, for non-heating energy usage it's pretty irrelevant. The average energy usage per household are standardised figures for all domestic metered properties in the UK, used by the energy sector and maintained/approved by the government .... however, the ONS do regularly publish various documents relating to housing stock which suggest that the current average for England is somewhere around 92sqm .... (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/english-housing-survey-2012-profile-of-english-housing-report )

Hope this helps, but am completely mystified why it in anyway helps describe how or why voltage optimisation works to an extent where it would provide any form of payback in either a normal/average domestic setting or even an exceptional/large one ... the trick to saving energy/money is insulate, insulate, insulate and just when you think you've finished, insulate some more - combined with replacing (over time) anything which is inefficient with something which simply does the same job, but costs less to run ....

HTH
Z

jamesperrett

zeupater wrote: »

Hi James

I've not seen you around these parts before, so a hearty welcome to the mayhem which the G&E (& energy) boards usually represent ...

We're currently being fed at 251.4V but we are pretty close to a main transformer (recently replaced in a shiny new green metal shed at that!) .... anyway, I think that the issue being discussed is more related to the energy consumed related to the power reduction.

Thanks for the welcome - I'm a very occasional lurker around here and I'd agree that these things aren't likely to be useful in most cases. Just pointing out how they might be able to justify those claims - however spurious they are.

Murchison2003

Jamesperrett
For the record the facts and figures are not spurious.
I'm not going to start an online slagging match cos i have nothing to prove to anyone and at the end of the day do i really care?

ed110220

Murchison2003 wrote: »

Jamesperrett
For the record the facts and figures are not spurious.
I'm not going to start an online slagging match cos i have nothing to prove to anyone and at the end of the day do i really care?

But you haven't produced a shred of evidence that your reduced electricity consumption was due to the voltage optimiser and not the milder winter that the gas industry attributed the 25% reduction in consumption for the first four months of the year to...

No-one wants a slagging match, we just want some evidence for your claims, as a claim without evidence is worth very little.

Ed