Voltis Home -voltage optimiser - Anyone actually got one?

rogerblack

The above comments I made do not in any way deny that individual users may believe they have a saving - and there is a real effect from installing such devices.
It's largely due to them thinking more about energy use.

(neglecting the above points on warmer year)

zeupater

Murchison2003 wrote: »

Zeupater
I don't usually post or join forums, i was a member of the green energy forum but left cos i got fed up with experts like you, who, i assume doesn't have the product in question, throwing facts and figures around which only in my opinion, just irritates people, really you must have too much time on your hands, that's all i can say.
I only posted to give my view on the results i have seen, not to get involved in a slagging match.
I live in the far North of the country where it doesn't seem to be getting 'warmer', my house temp is never below 22.5 deg 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, that's all i can say.

Hi

If the 'green energy forum' is this one http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/forum.php#green-energy-forums then I'm not surprised as the majority of posting members seem to be professional electricians who understand the theory behind such devices. As you mention, the viewpoints of the professionals on that forum 'just irritates people', especially those promoting such products as being a solution in the average domestic environment.

As for throwing 'facts and figures around' ... well, the realisation that the facts supported by the figures are indeed 'fact' and as such are pretty much indisputable is the basic premise of science, until disproved ....

I have absolutely no issue with voltage and power factor optimisation being beneficial in commercial and industrial applications. For many years I was based at a manufacturing site which was a large enough consumer of energy/power to warrant it's own small sub-station, being responsible for developing models, procedure and supporting processes to minimise the cost of energy consumed and as such well understand the potential cost benefits and how they can be achieved .... however, that also resolves to having a grounding in understanding why it doesn't apply in anything resembling an average domestic property.

I understand the comment "I only posted to give my view on the results i have seen" but the issue is that the results seen are most likely not due to the voltage correction, but the external temperature and general energy usage awareness .... and the effect of these cannot be ignored when forming a conclusion which is to be taken seriously by others.

Regarding living in "the far North of the country where it doesn't seem to be getting 'warmer'" ... the figures referenced show nothing to do with any theory of climate change, they simply illustrate that the CET temperatures over the period in which the voltage optimisation has been in place are higher than the average of the previous years in which the heat-pump has been in operation. If the reference to "far North" was intended to negate the relevance of CET in some way, then representative localised data for anywhere in the UK is available here .... http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climate-historic/#?tab=climateHistoric ...however, the comparative anomaly is unlikely to be significantly different ...

HTH
Z

Murchison2003

Istar 337
What you on about?

Murchison2003

Z
Wrong with the forum.
What's your expert opinion on pv solar panels and ground source heat pumps? Good or bad?

Martyn1981

Murchison2003 wrote: »

Zeupater
I don't usually post or join forums, i was a member of the green energy forum but left cos i got fed up with experts like you, who, i assume doesn't have the product in question, throwing facts and figures around which only in my opinion, just irritates people, really you must have too much time on your hands, that's all i can say.
I only posted to give my view on the results i have seen, not to get involved in a slagging match.

Hiya Murchison and welcome.

Can I just point out that I don't think anyone disagrees with voltage optimisers 'working'.

The question is, do they work economically in a domestic environment?

Potential savings should not be based simply on the size of the bill, since we are only really interested in the amount of leccy supplied at higher voltages (lets say 230V to 253V), so that strips out the vast bulk already (the first 230V). [I think there may be an argument that some devices can run happily at the lower limit (216V), so appreciate that this isn't completely black and white.]

Then we also aren't that interested in leccy consumption by devices that produce heat (intentionally) such as dishwashers, washing machines, kettles etc) since higher voltage means higher output.

We also aren't interested in the growing number of devices that can take voltage into account and modulate demand.

Once all of these factors are stripped out, the potential savings in a domestic environment are simply too small to pay anything more than a small amount to save.

But ..... a possible plus is the protection of kit, and enhanced life expectancy, but this should really be done by the DNO's.

Hence why I think you're onto a hiding for nothing trying to argue for such devices.

In your case, with very high leccy consumption I can understand why it may be economic (I don't really know), but can I ask, as I don't know, does the heat pump 'waste' higher voltage, or does it work harder, negating any savings? Just interested as a side issue.

Mart.

Cardew

Martyn1981 wrote: »

as I don't know, does the heat pump 'waste' higher voltage, or does it work harder, negating any savings? Just interested as a side issue.

Mart.

This taken from the specification of a Heat pump.


Min / Max Volts
197 / 253


More typically it would be 220v/240v.


If the heat pump were to be more efficient working at lower voltages(as Murchison2003 implies) then in a GSHP system costing £20,000 or more, is it not reasonable to assume the manufacturers would drop the input voltage to 197volts;)

Better still use a heat pump from countries that use 115 volts - they must be twice as efficient as ours in UK that are a nominal 230volts;)

kaya

Customer "testimonials" about products with no real quantifiable scientific testing are not proof of anything, they are usually just uneducated comments about a device they know little about but invested a good few quid in and can't admit they got mugged off , see " water car" or "HHO" devices for some prime examples

EricMears

One doesn't have to have bought a product before being allowed to express an opinion. I've never bought a bottle of 'snake oil' in my life but wouldn't hesitate to criticise the stuff if someone was trying to sell it to me !


Comparing one year's results with another and attributing all the improvement to one change without taking account of the others never works. In particular, the winter of 2012/13 was more severe than recent averages but 2013/14 was milder. Anyone leaving all their windows open for 13/14 (but who had kept them firmly closed in 12/13) would probably have experienced lower bills than previous year but if anyone posts saying the open windows caused the savings I'm sure we'll all laugh at them

zeupater

Murchison2003 wrote: »

Z
Wrong with the forum.
What's your expert opinion on pv solar panels and ground source heat pumps? Good or bad?

Hi

I'd be pretty confident to say that any 'green' forum which has members with a basic understanding of electrical theory would have similar discussions regarding voltage optimisation in a domestic environment (caveat - in a country which is metered and billed for kWh). The forum referenced was simply one with the same name that was raised .... incidentally I find it interesting that a forum where a significant membership proportion could benefit financially from promoting, selling and installing such products to the public has very little appetite to do so .... I'm not aware of any 'green' forum where the discussion leans towards support of voltage optimisation in an average domestic environment from any technical viewpoint, if you know of one let us know - doubtlessly, someone will have a look .....

Regarding my "opinion on pv solar panels and ground source heat pumps? Good or bad?" .... well, considering that I've contributed thousands of posts on the subject I would have thought that it's pretty easy to form a conclusion, but as you've specifically asked .... I think that the price of 'pv solar panels' is reducing, which is good, and that (due to installer margin aspirations and inefficient practices) "ground source heat pumps" are extremely expensive in the UK, which is bad.

HTH
Z

Murchison2003

For everyones information, i can only supply evidence from when i installed my Voltis which was 11 months ago. Since installing my heat pump 5 years ago, i have recorded and graphed monthly my usage and costing same as when i installed my PV panels 3 years ago.Nothing has changed in my day to day running of my property. I don't need to have and don't have windows open as i had a heat recovery system installed when i built my house. I could tell you the values each month over the last 3 year period regarding UV.
As i said in a previous post, i do have an above average usage of kwh per year which benefits me more, this is why i installed the machine, however i is still more beneficial than running heating oil ( annual consumption was 3000ltrs). The voltage coming into my property ranges from 245v - 248v and the voltage coming out is 221v.
At the end of the day i am more than happy with all the gadgets i've fitted, they seem to be working well, doing what they're supposed to and at the same time keeping my domestic outgoing costs to a minimal amount which is my end goal.
Hope this helps someone.