what to do before esa appeal tribunal?

dazza-mac

Hi all,

I recently received a letter saying I was to be in the WRAG group which I appealed. They wrote back saying they'd look again at the papers - but wrote back a few days ago with a bundle of papers and said I had to send back a letter confirming I wish to appeal and go to a tribunal.

I've seen a member from the CAB, but he didn't do anything yet, and didn't have my file as it had been sent to another office.

He told me that the CAB don't attend the tribunal but give a summation in letter form.

My worry is what do I do? I know there are so many descriptors for the support group - but what can I do to help my case when I attend?

Do I write a letter myself, am I supposed to know the law etc in order to state what descriptor fits me and why?

The CAB seemed to focus on the walking/mobilising as the one to go for, but I feel that is wrong. Whilst I beleive that descriptor should get me in the support group, I also beleive that because of Fibromyalgia, a lot of the other descriptors apply to me too. He seemed quite dismissive and didn't seem to hold much store with Fibromyalgia despite me saying that it has a terrible everyday affect on me. I only recently forgot I had something in the oven, it was so burnt I wasn't even sure what it was!

I feel that fibro is a very significant reason why I should be in the SG. So what do I do? I've already filled out the ESA50 to such an extent I honestly thought they must've read the wrong form by still putting me in the WRAG group.

bored_at_home

first i would relax. getting upset over it wont help you.
there is a list of descriptors and basically you need to get enough points from those descriptors to go in the support group.
you dont need to write a letter for the appeal, you would be best to go in person. it will not be a court room itl just be an office with a table and you sit facing the two people, one is an actual doctor so willl understand fibromalgia, the other guy is to see the decision fits within the law.
iv been to three tribunials now and thankfully iv won them all, it is your chance to sit down and talk to real people in your own words what problems you face on a day to day basis that would stop you from being able to work..
you need to prepare by looking at the descriptors to see which ones fit you and to what extent you feel it affects you , eg you have difficulty with short term memory(re burning the food). if you suffer pain sitting for a length of time explain that, or one of my problems is i can only read for a few mins max because then the tex fades away if i try and work on a computer due to visual damage from my illness. i needed to point out on an eye chart test they do at a esa appointment will not show that problem as i only need to focus to read one line of text in that but the problem is very much there.
it realy needs to come from you looking at how these desctriptors affect you, for eg i know fatigue is a biggie with fibro as it is with my illness ms, but fatigue alone doesnt fit the descriptors, so you needto think what does fatigue cause that does with you? my fatigue causes falls, and that results in urinary incontinence cos the shock makes my bladder contract which scores points.

i hope that gives you an idea, you may get people say involve dial, but my opinion is nobody knows your own illness better than you and its just about explaining why you fit the descriptors. if you hant got these already shout up and you can get a copy online.

dazza-mac

Thank you for your reply. You seem to be a calm person. I'm flustered just thinking about where to start.

My worry is that they can only judge you on the evidence they have in front of them - which frankly should be enough. But I was put in the wrag group.

Therefore I don't know if I should submit yet another account in even more detail - but to be honest it was/is in great detail.

Or should I just go armed with the information they already have and just bang home about how that affects me on a day to day basis.

I know I should get in the support group for the mobilising one, but the fibro affects a lot of the other descripters for the support group too.

I just don't understand how they could've put me in the wrag group when I genuinely feel I fit the SG descripters and feel as though there is no point in dragging it out any further at a tribunal - as the dwp seem to be adamant of their findings.

This is not being defeatist. Obviously I have to go and try at the tribunal but I'm just wondering if I'm flogging a dead horse. Surely something has to be done about the decision makers arriving at their decisions which then forces the individual to go to a tribunal. And surely the tribunal staff must see that they are having to sit on a panel judging people when it is blatantly obvious they should've been in the support group based on their esa50. As I say, this is not me just saying I should be in the support group with nothing to justify it. I don't know what more I can do.

I deliberately filled out the esa50 with as much info due to the fact that when I speak face to face with people I just get flustered, upset and agitated.

KxMx

I would write another detailed account- go through the medical report (which if you haven't already got a copy of it will come in the main appeal papers pack) and highlight any errors, things have been recorded false and in your submission show how bad things are, tailored to the support group criteria- for example if it's been recorded you have no problems with walking/ only a little trouble highlight this.

If you find face to face flustering then again I would send in another submission, so the appeal panel have it all there when you arrive. So if you don't cope well they have all the details there and you don't have to worry so much about being able to get all your points across.

I would not just cover the mobilising criteria, the more ways you can demonstrate you need to be in the SG the better.

Do you have a local DAB (Disabled Advice Bureau), they may be able to offer representation at the tribunal and tend to be more helpful than the CAB.

dazza-mac

KxMx wrote: »

I would not just cover the mobilising criteria, the more ways you can demonstrate you need to be in the SG the better.

Do you have a local DAB (Disabled Advice Bureau), they may be able to offer representation at the tribunal and tend to be more helpful than the CAB.

Hi,
Yes that's the point I wanted to make - that the mobilising isn't just the only thing that should be focused on, yet the CAB seemed to give the impression that's what they were going to say in their summation that gets sent in with the appeal papers.

The local disabled place I emailed - the guy who replied asked if I could go in the following day at the crack of sparrow, which I couldn't and asked for the first available appointment. He replied saying he was going on leave and that nothing was available. That's when I got the appointment with the CAB, and I was scared to turn that down in case I couldn't get any other help.

Just a point about going through the appeal papers. I wasn't given a medical so I can't point out anything that was said, so I don't really know what else I can do. I haven't had a good luck through as it just gets me upset and I get into a flap again. Presumably there is a report that states what they believe I can and can't do - but as I say, they never saw me face to face.

Also, I've sent in the letter that must be returned within 14 days to say I wish to continue with the appeal. But I'm not sure what happens next. I've heard nothing from the CAB and not been given a further appointment.

Markoo_2

Hi

Have you got a statement of reasons from them?

This will be extremely helpful when appealing this decision. Their statement of reasons will tell you exactly how they came to their decision and list what evidence they used to support it.This is exactly what you need to argue with them appealing.

For example, you may well have various letters from your GP and other doctors that say you can't walk more then 50 meters, But if there is one single contradition withing your paper work that implies you can walk more than 50 meters, for example you say you sometimes walk to the buss stop, and the buss stop is 100 meters away, or you sometimes walk to the shop and the shop is 100 meters away.

They will use those examples to say you can walk x amount of distance etc and ignore your GP and other doctors letters.

Any little thing like this they can find they will use to not award you, even if you have a substantial amount of other evidence saying otherwise they will use the tiniest thing to not award.

The good news is that the tribunal are much more fair and don't stoop to such low. in my case i have loads of medical reports stating i could not walk any distance without sever pain, yet they told me i could walk 200 meters and referred to a 3 year old medical report, and ignored 4 other reports less that 12 months old saying the total opposite.

Surprise surprise just before the tribunal date i got a letter saying they had changed their decision and were going to award me, They obviously new i was prapared to fight all the way and knew in court they would not stand a chance to decided to cut there losses and changed the decion a week before it was due to go to the tribunal! So it took them 13 months to change the decison, and it was not like i had sent in new medical evidence just before they decided to change the decision the last medical evidence was sent it over 12 months before! so it just gose to show the games they play.

CharlieBilly

I am also currently appealing and cab are helping. An appeal might so some months off maybe longer. I got my gp to write a letter to support my application basically stating I suffer from anxiety/depression and social exclusion. This was sent on to DWP by cab

dazza-mac

I'm really panicking now. I got my letter yesterday to say my appeal tribunal is on Feb 18. I'd only just returned the letter to say I wished to continue with the appeal!

The paperwork I got is the esa50 I filled in and stuff from them. But it's just jargon to me. I just get upset when I read it. I didn't have a medical so they've only arrived at their decision based on what I said in the esa50.



I wish I had the nouce to take the dwp to court for the amount of stress they've caused me. I really don't think I can go to the tribunal. It's not even where I thought it was. I've no-one to go with me and I just get in a flustered state and keep getting upset at the thought of it. I won't have a clue where to start as like most people, I have more than one ailment to cope with. The dwp wouldn't even give me an extension to fill in the esa50 saying I had enough time.

My dad was taken to hospital on the day I got the form and was in there for 2 months and had an operation at another hospital. I can't write without pain so I wanted to just type my form out after doing a rough draft first, but I just didn't have the time as the form had to be back within the 4 weeks. I wanted the form filled out thoroughly as I knew I'd be in a state at the tribunal

They say things like: "x states they can't walk more than 50 metres without stopping etc, but the evidence does not back this up" Then they use some regs sub section this, that, and the other

I get mobility supplement!
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By the way, I didn't send in much specialist letters, pain clinic reports etc because half of them stated things that I never said e.g. I said I had a bad lower back flare up on the day I had the appointment and when asked, I said they can last anything from 2 days to 2 weeks. But the letter said "they can last up to 2 days" - so obviously it would be pointless sending that in.

I also said that I was worried coz my dad is getting older and it worries me that he may start needing a lot of help. The pain clinic report said I was "worried about dad as he needs a lot of support" - so you can see how that would seem.

Someone mentioned whether I knew of a local "DIAL" centre.
What does that stand for? I've looked in the phone book for north tyneside but can't find anything.



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Mojisola

Try these people - https://www.scope.org.uk/services/brainbox-telephone-support-line-and-counselling-service