Northern rock loan over £25,000

Mthomas1986

Here's a little update for you all.

I decided to contact my local MP for advice, who looked into the whole situation and stated it must be frustrating for people in our position.

He has provided me with a contact email address for Mr Sajid Javid of the UK treasury who wrote a statement on the matter in December 2012 for those customers with loans less than £25,000.

I have now sent all corresponding email between myself and my local MP, to Mr. Javid for feedback on our situation for loans over £25,000 and our "misrepresented agreements".

I will post the feedback once I have a reply!

shellyk6666

Mthomas1986 wrote: »

Here's a little update for you all.

I decided to contact my local MP for advice, who looked into the whole situation and stated it must be frustrating for people in our position.

He has provided me with a contact email address for Mr Sajid Javid of the UK treasury who wrote a statement on the matter in December 2012 for those customers with loans less than £25,000.

I have now sent all corresponding email between myself and my local MP, to Mr. Javid for feedback on our situation for loans over £25,000 and our "misrepresented agreements".

I will post the feedback once I have a reply!

I hadn't even thought of the local MP, sounds like yours has been very helpful so far. It'll be interesting to hear what Mr Javid has to say on the matter. Definitiely let us know!

Have you already complained to NRAM and/or FOS?

djc77

I also went to my MP. Amazingly didn't know of the £270m bill for Northern Rock. He was happy to write to Treasury and to FOS prior to 8 week lead time. He needs docs but unfortunately I am waiting for subject access report so am not long into forty day wait although if he could force FOS enquiry they will ask for all that. Fingers crossed!

claret_mike

I wrote to Mr Javed - he never responded personally but I got this response

Thank you for your email dated 13 December about Northern Rock Asset Management (NRAM). As it is not practical for Ministers to respond to all the letters they receive, I have been asked to reply on their behalf.

On 11 December 2012, the Government notified Parliament that certain Consumer Credit Act (CCA) regulated loans in the NRAM portfolio had been identified where the loan documentation was not compliant with CCA requirements.

The CCA regulates the way in which a business conducts the process of lending money or offering credit. In selected letters and customer account statements, certain paragraphs of mandatory wording were written incorrectly and compulsory information about the amount of credit was not included in the statements. The period of non-compliance originates from changes to the CCA implemented in 2008 before the separation of NRAM and Northern Rock plc.

NRAM is managed at arm's length from Government, on commercial principles by UK Asset Resolution (UKAR) who also manages Bradford & Bingley. UKAR is entirely owned by the Government and the Government's interest is managed by UK Financial Investments (UKFI).

This means that where public money has been made available to banks, the Government is not able to intervene in commercial matters. To do so would be contrary to this principle of independence and may be anti-competitive or distort the market.

You will appreciate, therefore, that it is not appropriate for the Government to comment on NRAM's individual transactions, which are commercial decisions for the bank's management team. As with other banks, NRAM will need to balance customer interests, market competition and shareholder requirements when considering its commercial operations.

NRAM customers that would like further information on whether their loans could have been affected should visit NRAMS's website at http://www.nram.co.uk/en/customers/cca-loans.aspx

Customers that have general queries regarding their loans, can also contact NRAM's customer relations team on 0845 609 9626.

The Government is determined that lenders should treat borrowers fairly. If a consumer thinks they have been treated unfairly then they may wish to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). The FOS provides a free, independent service set up to help settle disputes between consumers and financial firms and can investigate complaints about a wide range of financial matters, including mortgages. FOS decisions are binding on the firm in question, but not on consumers. This means that a complainant retains the right to take further legal action should they see fit.

The contact details for the FOS are:

Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza
183 Marsh Wall
London E14 9SR
Email: complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk

The FOS can also be contacted by telephone at 0845 080 1800.

Finally, as you mention, UKAR has engaged Deloitte to conduct an enquiry into the specific circumstances of this issue originating in 2008 and to make recommendations on potential enhancements to the associated processes and controls. If the Deloitte report puts forward proposals to further strengthen the internal controls in UKAR, then this is something UKAR will consider very carefully.

Thank you for taking the time to make us aware of your concerns.

Yours sincerely



Daniel Beswick
Correspondence and Information Rights
HM Treasury

Evenfields

claret_mike wrote: »

I wrote to Mr Javed - he never responded personally but I got this response

Thank you for your email dated 13 December about Northern Rock Asset Management (NRAM). As it is not practical for Ministers to respond to all the letters they receive, I have been asked to reply on their behalf.

On 11 December 2012, the Government notified Parliament that certain Consumer Credit Act (CCA) regulated loans in the NRAM portfolio had been identified where the loan documentation was not compliant with CCA requirements.

The CCA regulates the way in which a business conducts the process of lending money or offering credit. In selected letters and customer account statements, certain paragraphs of mandatory wording were written incorrectly and compulsory information about the amount of credit was not included in the statements. The period of non-compliance originates from changes to the CCA implemented in 2008 before the separation of NRAM and Northern Rock plc.

NRAM is managed at arm's length from Government, on commercial principles by UK Asset Resolution (UKAR) who also manages Bradford & Bingley. UKAR is entirely owned by the Government and the Government's interest is managed by UK Financial Investments (UKFI).

This means that where public money has been made available to banks, the Government is not able to intervene in commercial matters. To do so would be contrary to this principle of independence and may be anti-competitive or distort the market.

You will appreciate, therefore, that it is not appropriate for the Government to comment on NRAM's individual transactions, which are commercial decisions for the bank's management team. As with other banks, NRAM will need to balance customer interests, market competition and shareholder requirements when considering its commercial operations.

NRAM customers that would like further information on whether their loans could have been affected should visit NRAMS's website at

Customers that have general queries regarding their loans, can also contact NRAM's customer relations team on 0845 609 9626.

The Government is determined that lenders should treat borrowers fairly. If a consumer thinks they have been treated unfairly then they may wish to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). The FOS provides a free, independent service set up to help settle disputes between consumers and financial firms and can investigate complaints about a wide range of financial matters, including mortgages. FOS decisions are binding on the firm in question, but not on consumers. This means that a complainant retains the right to take further legal action should they see fit.

The contact details for the FOS are:

Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza
183 Marsh Wall
London E14 9SR


The FOS can also be contacted by telephone at 0845 080 1800.

Finally, as you mention, UKAR has engaged Deloitte to conduct an enquiry into the specific circumstances of this issue originating in 2008 and to make recommendations on potential enhancements to the associated processes and controls. If the Deloitte report puts forward proposals to further strengthen the internal controls in UKAR, then this is something UKAR will consider very carefully.

Thank you for taking the time to make us aware of your concerns.

Yours sincerely



Daniel Beswick
Correspondence and Information Rights
HM Treasury

I think the author is most definately a graduate of the school of stating the obvious. No help whatsoever then. I think you should be directing your attention to the OFT. Afterall, they are the regulatory body for Consumer Credit. They won't get involved in individual complaints but obviously this affects so many people, it's not as though they can dismiss it.

Everyone email the CE0 of the OFT, Clive Maxwell. His email is on OFT board page.

So basically the government will simply watch on the sidelines whilst UKAR who work on behalf of the government, allow NRAM to trample all over the CCA and their customers. No-one wants to take the lead because they are afraid of the possible consequences of finding that these loans might just not in fact be enforceable OR the alternative, they will be forced to give protection to customers and have to pay out even more in redress. Either way they are going to have a bigger bill than they have announced already.

Perhaps there's a sympathetic oppositional MP who will take the lead!

NorthernRockVictim

I'm new here, and well done to all of you who have made massive efforts to achieve justice.

'To do so would be contrary to this principle of independence and may be anti-competitive or distort the market.'

Staggering - When the government decided to invest our money in this establishment, did they warn all Northern Rock customers that they would sit on the fence and not get involved should Northern Rock cross the legal boundaries...NO!

Mr. Javel is an MP, he is a servant of the persons who elected him, and he should not ignore correspondence from any of us.

I will do everything I possibly can to help this case, but the OFT in my experience are a bunch on non-doers. I have personal experience of them stating that they do not have the resources to take on a case even though I had provided them with conclusive evidence that a UK company had acted entirely illegally. This went to the OFT CEO via my MP, but no hint of help forthcoming.

We can get there together, but this will be a long haul and we must pool all our experience and resources. Basically our defendant is the government, our country, UK - that's as big as it an get!

djc77

So the Treasury won't get involved in commercial decisions within technically Nationalised banks. Did the Government not force RBS to disclose earners of bonuses over £1m, did the Government not step into contractual negotiations with Sir Fred Goodwin who was contractually entitled to all he received. Oh I get it, the Government will intervene when they can will Political brown points with the electorate. When it comes to thousands of people having been misold loans then they choose that they can refuse to intervene. I shall be phoning LBC in London where Nick Clegg takes calls every week. What's the betting they vet calls.

Steve1981

looks like we are in teh same boat as some of you guys - though in truth hadnt really considered the wider implications and stupidly took it on face value that we would be getting some money back. im trying to find out if we were over or under the 25k (was taken in 2005 and there is around 20k on the unsecured part so Im guessing we were). recently have had a letter stating that £3,600 will be reduced from the balance, but having read this post thread through it seems there is a lot more to this.

regarding the above reply from mr javid (or his minion) one can only deduce that there is a lot of concern at government level regarding the possible implications of the outcome and as such no one is prepared to be seen to take a stand. martin lewis' silence on the matter certainly speaks for itself

NorthernRockVictim

djc77,

You make a very valid point about the treasury and RBS, in the case of RBS it was (and is) financially advantageous for them to intervene and use the powers invested in them. Quite contrary though in this case the cost to the treasury would be astronomical, my belief is that there are far more >25k than <25k as their together mortgage was based around 30k which was very attractive to those with nasty credit card debts etc.

As for Martin Lewis, I would respectfully suggest that this a highly complex area of law which would be well above his knowledge base.

Evenfields

Well well, was taking a look through my heaps of paperwork from the lovely Northern Rock and read through a letter I received about another matter. Think it might be quite significant as this dates from 2009!

It says, (including their bad spelling of advice!)

As you will be aware, the legislation is complex, and some individuals in the UK are seeking to challenge the terms of their consumer credit agreements by reference to material available from internet websites purporting to represent the interests of consumers. I do not agree that these websites represent the interests of consumers. On the contrary, they encourage consumers to incur thousands of pounds in costs ( and hours of time) making speculative and unsubstantiated claims in relation to the enforceability of their loan agreements. The overwhelming majority of those cases will fail, leading to further increases in financial liability, for the customer in question.

Northern Rock has taken advices from its lawyers on the legal issues raised by such challenges, and audited its agreements to ensure that they comply with the provisions of the CCA 1974. In short, Northern Rock has not identified a single area where its stand alone unsecured loan agreements are open to challenge, or vulnerable to allegations of irredeemable unenforceability.

So reading from this I deduce that they HAD identified a problem as they use the term 'stand alone' to describe my loan which was not part of the Together mortage loan etc. Otherwise why mention it? It's rather odd terminology. I believe that the only connected product as in not stand alone was the Together loans. I also love the fact that they are so arrogant about the consumer fighting back for their rights! Says it all about Northern Rock don't you think. Think poor Martin Lewis :money: might be a bit insulted by their view of consumer internet websites.

The author was from Northern Rock's Legal Services at the time and is from one of the individuals who no longer works there! Wonder why?....;)


So I say soldier on and the truth will out and Northern Rock or NRAM have some tricky questions to answer now! In fact I think eveybody at NRAM and UKAR have some tricky questions to answer. HOW on earth they managed to produce such cobbled together (excuse the pun) agreements is just shocking but HOW apparently has no-one from NRAM or UKAR spotted this? That must obviously be the case as they, UKAR obviously would've mentioned this to everyone incuding Mr Osborne by now!