Selling an Ipad - how do i protect myself?

booboobunny

Hi there, i am looking for a bit of advice on selling my new Ipad 4.

The item is brand new in a sealed box. I advertised the item locally for a good price (£50 less than RRP) and have found a buyer.

However since the item is a result of an insurance claim that took too long to settle (4 months, i assumed they were rejecting it and bought a replacement) i don't have a receipt, just hte delivery note. when i sell it i want that to be the last i am concerned with it. so if it goes wrong i want the buyer to either enforce the Apple warranty or get someone to fix it. i don't want any comebacks to me. is this reasonable? and if so, how can i ensure this is happens?

I will ask her to unseal the box and check contents when she collects but other than that what do i do? Ask her to sign a caveat emptor type note? and also, where should the deal be struck? at my home feels a bit like asking for trouble, but a coffee shop feels a bit gangster-like, especially as i will be expecting payment in cash.

Any advice from seasoned sellers would be greatly appreciated. This is a bit of a one-off for me and i really don't want to mess up! Thanks

Crowqueen

i don't want any comebacks to me. is this reasonable? and if so, how can i ensure this is happens?

No, no, no. You are still legally responsible through the Sale of Goods Act for what you sell, even on a once-off, and SOGA doesn't stipulate the item has to be tested before the purchaser hands over their money.

I would want, as a buyer, to be able to plug it in, charge it up and test it. Since that may require it being taken away, I think you may need to be reasonably open to complaints if the item is faulty at POS. The only point at which you are not liable is if the item develops a fault later on, after usage. So you might at some point be able to disclaim responsibility, but not immediately after purchase.

There is no such thing as 'caveat emptor' in consumer law nowadays. Your buyer cannot waive their statutory rights and I would not deal with anyone who wanted me to do that. I'd walk out on the deal - if I'm paying that kind of money to someone I want to know that I'm getting a good deal. If someone did that I would assume something was wrong with the item or it was hot or something else. You need to put your buyer at ease - and that would be a sure-fire way of really annoying them and making out that you were a fraudster and the sealed box was full of brick-dust or something.

I would also be wary of using someone else's business premises to do cash deals. It would look like something very dodgy - fallen off the back of a lorry, drugs, whatever - and most shops I know where it is likely to happen (such as gaming shops dealing with collectible card games) have rules whereby people are not supposed to exchange money for goods on the premises (without it being a sale for the shop, obviously). It's more about not taking business away from the shop which is paying out for hosting a gaming day/evening, but all the same, I wouldn't expect people to be entirely happy with it.

Best to either deliver the item yourself or have them come to your house.

booboobunny

thanks that's helpful advice.
my concern is what's to stop them breaking it or using it incorrectly and coming back to me. what is a reasonable time for them to get back to me with any issues? i know shops extend their refund policy over christmas, but i'm not a shop and that is why the buyer is getting a decent reduction from the RRP.

i'm assuming that so close to christmas they want to use it as a gift for someone so possibly won't even be thinking of trying it out for another two weeks?

Crowqueen

Well - you might have to play it by ear. If it's a gift, then you might reasonably expect to wait until after Christmas for any complaints. It might be an idea to allow for that - particularly if you don't want them just to walk away.

I would imagine in any formal arbitration, the fact that the sale took close to Christmas and the item was not tested until after then might well be considered as an acceptable reason for them not to have got back to you until then. SOGA allows 'a reasonable period' of inspection - so they deal with sales of e.g. skis during the summer which aren't going to be used for six months, or items likely to be given as gifts, and so on.

And - whether or not they got a good deal - they do still have certain rights you can't overrule. For that amount of money most people would reasonably expect some comeback, and the seller might need to go the extra mile to convince them to buy from you and not just go elsewhere or buy it from a regular shop. Unless it would be a secondhand item and a considerable markdown, I'd be asking whether it was not worth just going to PC World, where they would get the rights they would have in a shop. Since you are effectively competing with the shops, you do want to encourage people to buy, not make them think you are stitching them up.

rachhh

You're probably safer trying your local CEX shop, I've sold a few unwanted phones to them and never had any trouble.

Crowqueen

rachhh wrote: »

You're probably safer trying your local CEX shop, I've sold a few unwanted phones to them and never had any trouble.

Yes. They won't pay you such a good amount as you might get from the buyer already arranged, however.

This is, by the way, perfectly safe for the seller. It's not so safe for the buyer and that is why it is suggested that anything that leads them to question the OP's honesty might be better avoided, such as trying to get them to sign away legal rights (which the OP can't do either).

There is probably no risk but there is no point in arranging the sale only for the buyer to walk out on it because the seller insists on something which makes them look dishonest.

frugalisticchic

booboobunny wrote: »

thanks that's helpful advice.
my concern is what's to stop them breaking it or using it incorrectly and coming back to me. what is a reasonable time for them to get back to me with any issues? i know shops extend their refund policy over christmas, but i'm not a shop and that is why the buyer is getting a decent reduction from the RRP.

i'm assuming that so close to christmas they want to use it as a gift for someone so possibly won't even be thinking of trying it out for another two weeks?

Nothing stopping them breaking it though I can't see why they would. All buyers have 60 days to open a dispute and return the item for a FULL refund which you will have to pay.

It's not really fair to just sell it, take the money and run. You have a responsibility.

Crowqueen

^^^ It's not being sold on eBay, it was advertised locally and sold face-to-face and so there's no issue with Paypal.

Even if they were dealing with a distance sale, it's 45 days with eBay and Paypal, not 60 (you have 60 days to leave feedback). SOGA is more open-ended, allowing time for inspection of an item but not putting a finite date on it.

A buyer who had no automatic recourse or would have to go through the courts would probably not break the item just to get a refund. It's a bit absurd anyway, even via eBay, and as stated, you would have a reasonable responsibility for a faulty item (or one broken on purchase).

booboobunny

just to be clear, i have no intention of asking someone to sign away their rights. i asked the question, got the answer and accepted it. i was asking for advice and i was kindly given some very sensible advice that i intend to take.

i am in no way dodgy. i don't think i will come across as dodgy, especially in light of the sensible advice i have received. i asked advice on where to conduct such a transaction as i have no idea where it is safest to do so. many selling sites caution against giving out your address, meeting folk in unusual places etc. once again i was asking about how to conduct the transaction and be safe.

i have obviously been reading too many of these forum threads! doing so gives the impression that a great many people - buyers and sellers are dodgy. i don't expect someone to break the ipad on purpose, but if they do break it i wouldn't want them turning back up on my doorstep asking for a refund. how i would know they hadn't broken it through misuse i don't know. i'm not a computer expert and that's what i'm concerned about.

to be honest i am more than happy not to sell it and would pull out if the buyer seemed a bit dodgy. i would love to keep it, it just feels excessive to do so as we already have one. the longer i have it the more likely i am to open it.

Crowqueen

how i would know they hadn't broken it through misuse i don't know. i'm not a computer expert and that's what i'm concerned about.

You wouldn't, but you would still be responsible for a fault that was obvious upon inspection and you might face legal action - so you'd have to at least discuss it with them.

To be fair you did suggest you wanted the buyer to sign something giving them no comeback - that is, signing away consumer rights. As said, that would make many people just walk away.

if the buyer seemed a bit dodgy

It possibly sounds like you might be better off selling it to CEX. As it is brand new then you might get quite a bit for it, though not as much as selling it direct to an end user. And if you want to sell it to an ordinary person, you are taking a risk, though as has been stated, less of one than you would selling it on eBay.

It is tempting to look on everything as a potential scam, but I wonder how healthy that is in the long run. It's good that you asked for some advice - as you might have otherwise upset someone. It's also good to look at this dispassionately and with a sense of proportion. Before you do something, think honestly - after taking the seller-goggles off - about how you would react on the other side of the divide.

booboobunny

'I will ask her to unseal the box and check contents when she collects but other than that what do i do? Ask her to sign a caveat emptor type note?'

this is what i asked in my original message, so no, i didn't say i would ask her to sign something. i asked if it's something i should do, as my experience of selling high value items is precisely zero, i was looking for advice on what to do/how to do it. i am happy that i have that now.