Going to court.

Own_My_Own

I spoke to a man at the CSA today.

They are now ready to take my ex to court. They have just asked for a date.

Although he explained everything I am still a little lost.

It would appear if he doesn't pay and ends up in prison, the debt stays but they can no longer make him pay.

I realise there are a lot of steps to get to this point, bailiffs etc; but I still cannot see us ever getting any money.

My dd is 15 and hoping to become a history teacher. This money would really help her in Uni. ( I know she will not get money once there, but the arrears would help her stay out of debt)

Does anyone now what happens now ?

I know every case is different, but any advise would be gratefully received. I have felt lost in this system for so long, I can't see it ever ending.

gingergee

Nothing advisory to say,sorry but wanted to say what amazing ambition a young one!!!! I'm studying A level history and love it!! Well done you for raising lo to actually want to do something so good x xxx

PS will show my 13 yr old this to motivate her x x

kevin137

They will never get a committal to prison, it just won't happen, there was a case recently, where the CSA where challenged as to the legality of a committal order, and they lost...

So as annoying as it may be, if the CSA knowingly try for a committal, they would in fact be breaking EU law...!!!

Own_My_Own

kevin137 wrote: »

They will never get a committal to prison, it just won't happen, there was a case recently, where the CSA where challenged as to the legality of a committal order, and they lost...

So as annoying as it may be, if the CSA knowingly try for a committal, they would in fact be breaking EU law...!!!

I don't actually want him to go to prison.

A- I don't hate him that much.
B- We would then never get any money.

I would just like some extra money to put in dds uni fund. I work 2 jobs, an still only manage to put a small amount away for her.

kevin137

I understand that, but taking him to court is fruitless anyway, as they commit to prison is now unlawful.

What else can they do, get an LO, well if they are going for a committal they already have an LO, so they can withdraw passport, driving license etc, but you would probably find that is now unlawful as well now...

The debt will always be owed (currently) you just may not get it...

Alpine

Sad as it is, you are unlikely to ever get a penny for your daughter's university fund. Accept that fact now.

You are better off making sure she knows never to expect anything from anyone in life and that if she really wants something, she's going to have to stand on her own too feet and work hard to achieve it. That will set her up better than anything your ex gives.


Oh, and make sure you tell her exactly what kind of partner to avoid having children with

clearingout

kevin137 wrote: »

They will never get a committal to prison, it just won't happen, there was a case recently, where the CSA where challenged as to the legality of a committal order, and they lost...

So as annoying as it may be, if the CSA knowingly try for a committal, they would in fact be breaking EU law...!!!

wasn't the legal case was about whether or not the guy concerned actually owed the money in the first place - and because the CSA wasn't able to prove he did (rather than him prove he didn't), the judge wouldn't commit him? It wasn't an actual challenge to the legality of commital, but the conditions which may have lead to a commital hearing?

OP - it is frustrating. It is best to accept that you will never see the money. At the same time, it is worth banging on the CSA's door on a regular basis as they really don't seem to move things forward unless you're asking and asking and asking.

kevin137

It was, but every case worth it's salt will now raise the challenge, and before committal to prison, the court MUST offer you legal advice for free if you do not have any, it may only be legal aid solicitor, but the 1st thing he should always ask is, can we ascertain that the money claimed to be owed is correct. And the CSA cannot do that EVER...!!!

Case loses every time... Not a good thing, but not a bad thing either, when you thing of how many mistakes they make in simple cases, then you begin to understand that sending someone to prison for something that may not be correct, or is more likely to be incorrect does actually make sense, and the only people to blame are the CSA themselves, they have no accountability...

Own_My_Own

You know the funny thing is, I never asked for any money. (You had to claim in the old days). And I never cared what he had or did.
The CSA got in touch with me, out of the blue, back in February. They had been going through old cases and came across mine.
I still don't really care if we get any money. My dd and ds (now 19) both know what he is like, and expect nothing from him. My Dad will help dd with uni.
But is this causes him some inconvenience, I wouldn't say I'd be sorry.

clearingout

kevin137 wrote: »

It was, but every case worth it's salt will now raise the challenge, and before committal to prison, the court MUST offer you legal advice for free if you do not have any, it may only be legal aid solicitor, but the 1st thing he should always ask is, can we ascertain that the money claimed to be owed is correct. And the CSA cannot do that EVER...!!!

Case loses every time... Not a good thing, but not a bad thing either, when you thing of how many mistakes they make in simple cases, then you begin to understand that sending someone to prison for something that may not be correct, or is more likely to be incorrect does actually make sense, and the only people to blame are the CSA themselves, they have no accountability...

I don't disagree with you, Kevin. But I shall bang on about me again!!!!! I have an assessment - it's based on figures my ex gave the CSA, backed up with payslips. I know this is far less than he ever earnt from his business when we were together. Since providing that information, my ex has basically ignored the CSA - no dealings with them whatsoever. They have charging orders and now an Order of Sale....still not paid. Does he owe what the CSA says he does? Probably not. Business is up and down at the best of times and we've been in a recession. If we say that a judge can't eventually commit him to prison for ignoring the CSA (a government agency when it comes down to it) and refusing to support his children then what is the point? Thousands of NRPs will follow suit, surely?

The case you mention as I have read it was a clear case of CSA mal-administration whereby the NRP concerned had done what he could to engage them in dialogue about what he owed and had tried to sort it. It is for this reason that the judge was unhappy about commital and refused it. That is very, very different to a situation like mine. If the Law is unable to cope with NRPs who won't support their children then we have arrived at a very dark place. As a society we shouldn't accept that.

kevin137

I totally agree, the problem is still the same though, raise an issue about the numbers and no judge will commit...!

Where does that leave all the PWC well it screws up a lot of the chances they have for ever getting anything. However, there are other options available to them that are very under used and would have a more beneficial affect on the outcome...! I think that the withdrawal of a passport is very under used as it the withdrawal of driving license.

My reasons are simple, if you can't afford to pay the money for CS, then you can't afford to go on holiday. So you don't need a passport...!

If you have your license withdrawn, and then continue to drive you can be committed to prison for driving without a license, more effective as it is a punishment that i think more fits the crime so to speak. I also think curfews should or could be imposed by means of tagging...

The biggest problem though, is the appeals procedure after the CSA get it so wrong, it takes far to long, comes back wrong more times than right, and then leaves you with more unanswered questions than you start with...

Your case is not a great one, and if they have an order for sale then it should be enforced, and if not, then you need to know why not... If they will not enforce it, then ask them to get a charge on the house...! It effectively wipes the debt, but means he can never do anything with it, is this a possibility i wonder... Makes for an interesting situation that is for sure...