Is ebay becoming a snipe fest?

Goldiegirl

People like to feel they are getting a bargain.

Therefore they like to put in their bid as late as possible as they feel that there's less chance of being outbid, so they can get their item at the lowest possible bid.

As a buyer, if I'm around at the end of the auction I manually snipe, if not I put in my highest bid as late as I can, and see what happened when I return to my computer. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't.

As a seller, I list at the lowest price I'll accept - sometimes it sells at that low price with just one bid, sometimes it'll sell way in excess of what I expected, with a flurry of late bids. I have to say, it's great fun watching last minute bids on your item.

I don't thin there's anything bad about sniping. It's just a strategy - sometimes it works, other times, if you didn't snipe high enough you'll still get outbid.

Crowqueen

I can't be bothered to snipe. In many categories there are only a handful of items to look at - I was after buying a cafetiere cover last week, I searched eBay and there were at the most 15 listings. Cutting out the really pricey ones and the ones from unregistered business sellers, there was one seller of 'jackets' (wrap-around lagging) and one seller of 'cosies' (like tea-cosies only shaped differently) so I bought one of each style from small sellers of handmade items.

There were no auctions at all in that search, nor would I want to bid.

Contrast that with when I wanted to buy a coat a few weeks ago. I managed to find a few suitable items, but the most I was prepared to go back in search was items ending within the next 24 hours. I didn't want a cheapo new one; I wanted a secondhand one primarily because they would probably be better made and probably warmer. Most of them only got bids in the last half hour but given that I couldn't guarantee being around for the end of the auction I just put in a bid and went away.

My max wasn't really high enough to win anything but it certainly contributed to a higher price overall. I eventually found something nice in a charity shop for what I had been prepared to pay on eBay without having to pay postage on it.

eBay is not 'about' anything in particular except people buying items. They will buy in the way that is convenient to them, and sellers exist to service those demands. If you start getting into sellers forcing buyers to buy then you lose sight about what commerce actually 'is'. A successful seller will know their marketplace, do a bit of research to see what actually sells, and then pitch the item accordingly. They won't get tangled up in nostalgia, or asserting why eBay exists (that goes for buyers who think eBay sellers owe them bargains as well) or inflexible about their own practices and insistences that just act to put buyers off. They will focus on achieving the best price for their items and the best way of encouraging buyers to buy. Setting up everything in the seller's interest isn't actually the best way of encouraging in custom anywhere - eBay has to evolve and move with the trend or risk being buried under the stampede of buying traffic elsewhere.

bartelbe

RFW wrote: »

It's a swamped market in nearly all areas. It's the same everywhere at the moment, auction prices are down a lot on and off Ebay. There's auctions all over not selling items when they don't reach their reserve.

As I said earlier 5 or so years ago items we listed in auction would mostly reach a good price with 99p starts, that stopped about 2 years ago in a lot of listings. We do still run 99p auctions but they're less and less, they can still work though. I would add that I know the market we sell in has depleted quite a lot, much less buyers with much less spending power. I expect the antique book trade is much the same.

Doesn't surprise me, with the economy the way it is, people don't have the money for luxury items. Then combine it with the increasing number of sellers, me included, it is not exactly a market to make a great deal in.

paddyrg

I hate sniping. It makes the worst of all bidding systems. In any other auction system it is fairer to the vendor...

Hammer/regular auction - ebay could easily emulate this with 'any bid placed in the last 2 minutes extends the hammer time to 2 minutes' so you wouldn't get the 'you didn't win' and 'outbid, bid again' emails in the same 3 seconds.

Dutch auction - falling price, first to jump wins. Buyers can either set a 'buy at £x' price or jump in live if it is something they need pronto.

Sealed Bid - I have seen comparisons between sniping and sealed bid, however it is the worst of all worlds for the vendor. In a proper sealed bid auction, *everyone* enters via sealed bid, it does not favour the one using technological 'cheats' to deny the vendor the best price. And it sells for the lowest distinct bid, not the highest. In a sealed bid auction id person A bids £100, B bids £110 and C bids £200, the goods sell for £200. In a sniped auction they would sell for £110 + the lowest increment (so maybe £120). That is absolutely against the vendor's interests.

Ebay don't give a **** though - they want stuff to sell cheap so buyers (the ones with the money) keep coming back, then they sell access to those buyers to the vendors. If everything went for under a tenner but they still got a hundred million listing fees, they'd be even happier.

Crowqueen

Ebay don't give a **** though - they want stuff to sell cheap so buyers (the ones with the money) keep coming back, then they sell access to those buyers to the vendors. If everything went for under a tenner but they still got a hundred million listing fees, they'd be even happier.

Doesn't follow, really, if you think about it. As you say, eBay pay out to get buyers coming in and sell access, so they'd want the maximum return on that investment. The market has simply evolved naturally, eBay are putting more resources into fixed price items as that is what people seem to be most comfortable with, the law is changing next year to make auctions included in the Distance Selling Regulations so they hold no advantage for sellers, and buyers snipe for a number of reasons, including the prevalence of shilling by unscrupulous sellers. You cannot force eBay to adopt any kind of platform that is not to the advantage of the end consumer or the way they do business. A successful company will acknowledge and accommodate trends, not stick to purist formats.

And as I've said, what favours buyers will favour sellers, because sellers are there to service buyers, not the other way round.

They may not actively chase some markets - they seem happy to ignore things like the Paypal on collection scam which means some of that particular market may go elsewhere - but I doubt they are doing it deliberately.

Most of the formats you quote would be difficult to understand for a casual browser, and infinitely renewing auctions just make it easy for shillers. They got rid of Dutch Auctions a while back, and I doubt the majority of the buyers even noticed.

If you don't think you get the best prices, you don't have to use eBay, but the alternative is hundreds of sites with fixed price listings rather than purist auction sites. The only one which worked considerably differently from eBay - CastOff.net, where what someone bid was what they paid, regardless of what other people had bid (e.g. on eBay I bid 3.00, the item stays at 99p until someone else bids me up; on CastOff, I bid 3.00, I pay 3.00) - folded after about a year in operation, probably from a sheer lack of buying (and hence selling) traffic.

bartelbe

Crowqueen wrote: »

Ebay don't give a **** though - they want stuff to sell cheap so buyers (the ones with the money) keep coming back, then they sell access to those buyers to the vendors. If everything went for under a tenner but they still got a hundred million listing fees, they'd be even happier.

Doesn't follow, really, if you think about it. As you say, eBay pay out to get buyers coming in and sell access, so they'd want the maximum return on that investment. The market has simply evolved naturally, eBay are putting more resources into fixed price items as that is what people seem to be most comfortable with, the law is changing next year to make auctions included in the Distance Selling Regulations so they hold no advantage for sellers, and buyers snipe for a number of reasons, including the prevalence of shilling by unscrupulous sellers. You cannot force eBay to adopt any kind of platform that is not to the advantage of the end consumer or the way they do business. A successful company will acknowledge and accommodate trends, not stick to purist formats.

And as I've said, what favours buyers will favour sellers, because sellers are there to service buyers, not the other way round.

They may not actively chase some markets - they seem happy to ignore things like the Paypal on collection scam which means some of that particular market may go elsewhere - but I doubt they are doing it deliberately.

Most of the formats you quote would be difficult to understand for a casual browser, and infinitely renewing auctions just make it easy for shillers. They got rid of Dutch Auctions a while back, and I doubt the majority of the buyers even noticed.

If you don't think you get the best prices, you don't have to use eBay, but the alternative is hundreds of sites with fixed price listings rather than purist auction sites. The only one which worked considerably differently from eBay - CastOff.net, where what someone bid was what they paid, regardless of what other people had bid (e.g. on eBay I bid 3.00, the item stays at 99p until someone else bids me up; on CastOff, I bid 3.00, I pay 3.00) - folded after about a year in operation, probably from a sheer lack of buying (and hence selling) traffic.

I think it does put off buyers, auctions aren't just a way for sellers to gauge a market price, but buyers too. A good example are shops, the price on an item is merely an offer price, you can offer less. So in theory you could run a shop with no prices, just wait for people to make an offer.

Now I have seen a few second hand shops like this and I hate them. I want a price to be able to know what the seller wants before I go to the till.

Many buyers don't want to put in a guess of what they should pay for an item days in advance. They want to see what other people are bidding and use that to gauge the value. There is nothing more frustrating as a buyer than to put in a max bid, and then be out bid by 50p.

The buyer thinks, damn, I would have out bid that. With an auction system that extends the end time, it gives buyers the oppotunity to place another bid.

All markets are about information, information about price, competition and demand. Ebay snipping restricts that information for both buyers and sellers. They are operating blind, and having to guess to a certain extent.

I think if you could devise an auction system that was more relaxed, that allowed the person who was willing to bid most to win, you would get more buyers and sellers.

alykatz

So theoretically you want auctions to extend the end time everytime someone bids? Wow way to turn the ordinary buying public away. Shillers are rampant on ebay , this would just be a charter to scam the buyers. Plus not to mention if you want to bid on something you really want for whatever reason ,you have to be sat on your computer for an unspecified length of time bidding and praying the other bidder isnt the seller on another account.A totally unrealistic view in my opinion.

I use a sniper and always will,too many private sellers out there using second accounts.But for the majority on my online sales these days i go elsewhere or use a bin option, far easier and little to no chance of being done over.

paddyrg

alykatz wrote: »

So theoretically you want auctions to extend the end time everytime someone bids?

Just like Bonham's or Sotheby's then? What a crazy idea. It'd never work. Except it does... well for G0 Dove anyway http://www.go-dove.com/en/info/terms.asp

Dynamic Closing. Many times auction end times are extended as a courtesy to bidders with slower Internet connections. Bids placed on any lot number within the last 10 minutes of that lots scheduled closing time will extend the close time on that lot for 10 additional minutes. This process will continue until there is no bidding activity for 10 minutes on that lot number.

It works well, and it means you don't favour last-minute snipers at the expense of the vendor.

alykatz

paddyrg wrote: »

Just like Bonham's or Sotheby's then? What a crazy idea. It'd never work. Except it does... well for G0 Dove anyway http://www.go-dove.com/en/info/terms.asp

Different venue,totally different situation.You cannot compare them as like for like ,thats just silly. Plus the chance of shilling is very low although they do also have proxy bidding ect .If i go to somewhere like that i bid my max buy what i want then leave.Ebay is more for those selling bits and pieces they would otherwise donate or sell at a carboot, but they use ebay because of the far larger pool of possible buyers.
At the end of the day i see a lot of people crying about a fair deal for sellers and people shouldbe considering if the sellers getting a fair price!!! What a silly idea, i walk into a shop to purchase say a pair of shoes , i browse see what i like and questions cross my mind, will they look good with my outfit, are they comfortable ect. I pay what is asked and leave not once do i stop and ask myself should i be paying more, is the seller getting a fair price.
Harsh as it may sound i bid and pay whats asked if its not what the seller wanted price wise thats their problem not mine.
As has been said on here time and time again, start any auction at the minimum you want for your item, If it sells thats good if not then at least your not upset your buyer didnt pay what you wanted.

Crowqueen

If a seller asks a fair price they will usually get it. If they try to guilt-trip a buyer into paying more than its worth - well, they will go out of business, either because they put off buyers entirely or can't compete with the people who know what exactly a commercial relationship entails.

At its worst, conspiracy to keep prices high is called a cartel and is illegal.