HSBC Credit Card

markthomas1973

Some help if possible, my mother in law received a call from the bank wanting to know why she hadn't paid her minimum payment, she indicated that she hadn't used her card and therefore had nothing to pay, they preceded to inform her that £4000 in cash had been withdrawn from an ATM over the last thirty days. She had no knowledge of this and confirmed her card had never been out of her purse. The card statement never arrived and a request for information was not very successful, this was reported to the police and the fraud department of HSBC, they have investigated and insist that it was her card and pin used and therefore she was responsible. We did manage to get some dates and times for the transaction which co incided with her being at work. We requested to know why they did not flag or try to contact her as she only uses the card 4 or 5 times a year and never before for removal of cash, they say it is not in their policy and insist she is liable and included a form for the financial omnbudsman if she disagrees.

Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

dalesrider

From the scant information in the post.
Someone who has access to the card has taken and returned it. Be that someone at work, or someone at home.
It would not flag up on the security system as its not in a fraud pattern as the card was used.
Systems clearly show when chip has been used.
Also Uk atms are geared to only allow cash when the chip is read. No chip = no cash, unless its a chipless card.

Further questions would be where is the card kept when she is at work?
Does she have the PIN recorded?
How close are the ATM's to where she lives/works?
Has anyone she knows been with her when she has used the card?

Given you know the location of some ATM's debits. Get the police to see if their is CCTV to view.

Janie4Now

And she hasn't had a statement in that time showing the transactions/minimum payment due?

I'm afraid I'm with dalesrider on this one - someone has taken her card, used it and then, I suspect, hidden her statement.

Many ATMs do have CCTVs.....ask the bank to have a look at them; they will likely invite your mother-in-law in to view them to see if she knows the person.

Let us know how she gets on!!!

Janie4Now

And ask HSBC to freeze the disputed amounts so that she doesn't have to make payment of them (or interest) whilst this is being resolved.

gglaze

I would say, go and file a police report immediately. Then also take the above suggested actions. This sounds quite serious, and will surely require a police report to accompany any claims back to HSBC.

grumbler

dalesrider wrote: »

From the scant information in the post.
Someone who has access to the card has taken and returned it. Be that someone at work, or someone at home.

What about the PIN?

It would not flag up on the security system as its not in a fraud pattern as the card was used.

£4K cash from a credit card (from a card that wasn't used for any other transactions) is not a fraud pattern?!

Systems clearly show when chip has been used.
Also Uk atms are geared to only allow cash when the chip is read. No chip = no cash, unless its a chipless card.

Well, cloning seems to be a more likely scenario than 'someone at work/home'.

dalesrider

grumbler wrote: »

What about the PIN?

Did you read the questions I posed ????

Which is the need to know who might have been with card holder when it was used.
Also could it be related to DOB or such.

grumbler wrote: »

£4K cash from a credit card (from a card that wasn't used for any other transactions) is not a fraud pattern?!

Sure isnt. Remember security systems look at fraud patterns. NOT HOW A CUSTOMER uses their card. So cm card in Uk atm is not a fraud pattern.

grumbler wrote: »

Well, cloning seems to be a more likely scenario than 'someone at work/home'.

Not going to happen in the UK. As I said needs a chip on the card for cash at a UK atm.
I know its hard to get your head round, but the vast majority of these cases it is someone at home that takes and uses the card. Add in statement missing, and it makes it even more likely the case...

There is one thing that will help the OP. And that is if it has been reported to the police and this is a credit card. Gross negligence is the only way the card holder can be held fully liable. If this went to FOS then there is a good chance of only being held £50 liable.
But card holder is going to have to push the police to gain CCTV.
Bank won't do it as it is not their loss. And they do not have the ability to request CCTV from 3rd parties. Unlike the police.

markthomas1973

Thanks for all the advice, the incident has been reported to the police and a crime reference number provided, the ATM in question which is local has a CCTV but the thirty day period for holding of this data had lapsed by the time she was made aware of the withdrawals. I don't know about her specific pin but I will enquire if it is obvious. My feeling is it relates to someone maybe intercepting her post but I am not sure if they could have copied her card or taken it without her knowledge. If the transactions have been undertaken without her consent or knowledge however she cannot prove this, can the bank prove it was not a clone and therefore insist her full settlement. I believe they have placed the account on hold until a resolution has been reached.

roger196

go to http://www.alikelman.com/page32.htm

there is very useful info about the info that is stored on the card each time it is used.

Has she registered with CIFAS and with a commercial site like experian.

Ask the bank whether there are any similar cases in your local area.

JimmyTheWig

dalesrider wrote: »

From the scant information in the post.
Someone who has access to the card has taken and returned it.

I'd say someone has changed the address on the account. Ordered a new card. Ordered a new pin.

No need to return the card to the purse (multiple times).
Also explains why the statement never turned up.

dalesrider

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

I'd say someone has changed the address on the account. Ordered a new card. Ordered a new pin.

No need to return the card to the purse (multiple times).
Also explains why the statement never turned up.

One slight issue with that is HSBC will only send a card to a branch if you have changed your address in the last 60 days.
Which will require proof of ID.

Something I'm sure has also been checked. As it would flag up on the system when the card was stopped, due to the ATM trans. So the cm would have been asked about this.

markthomas1973.
Its easy for a bank to prove that the chip was read to make a transaction. As both Visa & Mastercard main systems log this. As well as will HSBC internal systems.
As I have said. No way will it be a cloned card. As its not possible to get cash from a ATM without a chip on these cards in the UK.