Plug-in type storage heaters. Do they exist?

JohnnyBaloney_2

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Fischer et al purveryors of associated snake~oil and other alchemy advertise themselves as 'plug in storage heaters'

Hey Richie, thanks for the pointer. If you google for "fischer storage heaters" the thread that I believe you had in mind comes up first, just above the Fischer's actual website I don't stay on websites that show no prices for longer than 5 seconds but indeed they do offer pluggable storage heaters. However, in that same thread there was a mention of Suka heaters and they do list prices. £700 for 30cm long heater, thanks but I think I will pass :wave: For ~£150 I can have a 1.7kW quality storage heater + a plug + a length of cable + a timer package.

While I'm still musing about the practicabilities of getting the storage heaters (the bulk, weight and installation hassle in a rented accommodation being the concern now) I am also trying to tackle the problem from different sides. Two ideas came to mind so far.

First, I went to a shop and got myself a roll of behind a radiator reflector foil and a roll of double sided tape (£10 altogether + 1hr installation time). That had an immediate psychological effect, I got very hot even before finishing the work

Second, while bricks and concrete are not as good at storing heat as cast iron, they can still store fair amount of it I believe. It so happens that the block of flats where I'm staying now has proper solid internal walls. So I decided to turn the hallway that has no external walls and is surrounded by the kitchen and rooms into a storage heater. I shifted one oil filled radiator there, set it to full blast and connected to a timer so that it only uses cheaper electricity. Voila! Remains to be seen if that works but my hope is that while not rapidly the heat will eventually start bleeding into the surrounding rooms via the walls, doorways and transit of people

My most recent discovery were polystyrene boards (£3 a pop!) but I haven't found any application for them yet, maybe could reduce window area (single glazed btw) with them he he

Richie-from-the-Boro

JohnnyBaloney,

- """comes up first""" - not because they are deserving of the ranking, but because they pay a lorra money extra for that placing
- in the summer you can get a dozen nearly new storage heaters free, on a 'pick up only' basis, they give them away to get rid
- even at this time of the year they're still available collect only for 99p each, set ebay sort 'nearest first'
- """internal walls""" agreed - people could save a a lot of money and improve comfort by re-siting existing night store rads
"""internal walls""" people could considerably improve storage capacity and comfort by fitting an additional 0.85 in the living area
"""back-plate insulation""" I agree with you, it improves reflectivity, and slows down radiated absorption
- for """bleeding into the surrounding rooms via the walls""" see this

NOTE : They can afford the massive extra cost to be placed at the top of a search engine given their charges / margin nett nett profit per unit.

Sirlaughalot

macman wrote: »

If you switch to E7 just for the heating of one room, you will then pay more for all the rest of your non-E7 cheap hours electricity consumption. That makes no sense at all.
Assuming that this room does not need permanent heating, why not just use a fan heater/oil filled rad/convector as necessary?

Can a 3 bed room house full of storage heaters on the e7 tariff ever be as efficient/cost effective as a gas ch one?

rogerblack

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Can a 3 bed room house full of storage heaters on the e7 tariff ever be as efficient/cost effective as a gas ch one?

Yes.
But only in limited circumstances.
Maintainance costs are significantly lower, so you can factor that in as a saving.
If the storage heaters are properly used, with a predictable demand, with the occupiers in a substantial fraction of the day.

And this assumes that there is a cheap economy 7 deal.

If the above isn't true, E7 gets less and less worthwhile, compared to gas.

Sirlaughalot

rogerblack wrote: »

Yes.
But only in limited circumstances.
Maintainance costs are significantly lower, so you can factor that in as a saving.
If the storage heaters are properly used, with a predictable demand, with the occupiers in a substantial fraction of the day.

And this assumes that there is a cheap economy 7 deal.

If the above isn't true, E7 gets less and less worthwhile, compared to gas.

Thanks mate. But the more i way up the pro`s and cons of E7 i see no worth for a typical working family in a 3 bed house like ours. Most families need heating in the morning and late afternoon onwards.
Once you release the heat from these storage heaters early morning i`m far from convinced there will be sufficient heat left in them come evening time when they will be needed most.
In the worst case scenario i can see you having to supply additional electric heating at sky high E7 peak rates to keep warm.

In limited circumstances they may serve a purpose but not something that would suit the majority of families.

sheffield_lad

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks mate. But the more i way up the pro`s and cons of E7 i see no worth for a typical working family in a 3 bed house like ours. Most families need heating in the morning and late afternoon onwards.
Once you release the heat from these storage heaters early morning i`m far from convinced there will be sufficient heat left in them come evening time when they will be needed most.
In the worst case scenario i can see you having to supply additional electric heating at sky high E7 peak rates to keep warm.

In limited circumstances they may serve a purpose but not something that would suit the majority of families.

Thats the way they work they suit old folk who stay in all day but for anyone who works e7 is not fantastic. Some of the old off peak tariifs (you can't get them no more), were ok as they had afternoon boost. Most folk who have e7 storage heaters have no choice as no gas and often social properties.

Sirlaughalot

howee wrote: »

Thats the way they work they suit old folk who stay in all day but for anyone who works e7 is not fantastic. Some of the old off peak tariifs (you can't get them no more), were ok as they had afternoon boost. Most folk who have e7 storage heaters have no choice as no gas and often social properties.

Hi there,

Seems to be a contradiction here with the info i have from another energy saving site if i`m reading this correctly.
It states that as a general rule of thumb the E7 tariff is best suited to users who have a 60%/40% peak/off peak electric split. Can`t say i`ve seen too many senior citizens rocking and rolling in the early hours in my part of the world(Birmingham) so why would it be best for them.
The way i see the tariff it would be best suited to people who work the 2-10pm shift.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Hi there,

Seems to be a contradiction here with the info I have from another energy saving site if i`m reading this correctly.
It states that as a general rule of thumb the E7 tariff is best suited to users who have a 60%/40% peak/off peak electric split. Can`t say I've seen too many senior citizens rocking and rolling in the early hours in my part of the world(Birmingham) so why would it be best for them.
The way I see the tariff it would be best suited to people who work the 2-10pm shift.

- its nearer 30-70% these days Sirlaughalot

#9 """I`m not on E7""" its unlikely to be economic to you, 100,000 litres of hot water per annum even after you've paid for E7 wiring and a PartL water cylinder then to put 3 storage heaters in your 60x 80 foot uninsulated garage is unlikely to lead to any cost effective benefits.

#16 """release the heat from these storage heaters early morning""" here you've a fundamental misunderstanding of how they work, they store enough cheap heat in their [off peak] 7 hour charge for the [on peak] 17 hours. Anyone who doesn't know how to use them or doesn't have sufficient stored cheap heat in the first place, and there are many. They should upgrade to a higher kWh storage.

#16 """release the heat from these storage heaters early morning""", to put it in context if a~n~other 500,000 on peak households could be switched to E7 it would virtually eliminate both the early morning and the 5-7 peak on demand period.

8% or about 2 million households use off peak in the [excludes NI] UK, they also get a full tank of boiling hot water 365 nights a year for 30% of what you pay, no risk of poision or fire and no maintenance costs whatsoever. Many E7 households use on peak electric heating as supplementary heating because they don't have sufficient stored cheap heat in the first place.

If the suppliers could be persuaded by Offcom to get their act together and look at smoothing the supply curve demand spreading it over the on / off / shoulder periods by offering E10 hours at E7 prices [would need to move the day boost down 3 hours] the nation would save the cost of a power station and the whole nations both on-peak and off-peak costs could be lowered. They did a trial offering a massive 1% saving, you know - a trial designed to fail.

macman

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Can a 3 bed room house full of storage heaters on the e7 tariff ever be as efficient/cost effective as a gas ch one?

Electric heating is far more efficient (100% effficient) than gas CH. But it's not cheaper, becaue the cost of the fuel is so much higher.
Efficiency and 'cost effectiveness' (by which I assume you mean 'cheaper to run') are two entirely different questions...

pooch

macman wrote: »

Electric heating is far more efficient (100% effficient) than gas CH. But it's not cheaper, becaue the cost of the fuel is so much higher.

Unless that electricity is supplied on a low rate from a 2 rate tariff

Then the electricity will be about 20% more on average per kWh than gas, which is usually more than offset by the improved efficiency of electricty ... but costs could vary slightly dependant on the individual tariffs involved.
(older gas boilers may only be 60% efficient, and this is further reduced in terms of heating via a wet system)