Can my ex claim CB i'm not entitled to?

gobecgo

My partner earns between 50 and 60k, but i think we're probably going to just stop the benefit because of the hassle of trying to keep right with the assessment (he has a potential discretionary bonus every year, plus other benefits which change over the course opf the year which are impossible to predict in advance with accuracy).

My eldest's dad is unemployed and on benefit. She lives with me but overnights with him once a week and sees him 5x/week.

Can he claim for her? Legally i mean. If i cease my claim for her and just stop payments for the other 2, can he then claim for her?

miduck

CB is only claimable by the parent with care.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

If he receives CHB, then he can reasonably claim CTC and be regarded as the PWC - and you could be reasonably expected to receive communications from the CSA for maintenance.

wayne0

as jojo said...

maybe you could come to an agreement with him that you would allow him to do so, as long as he didnt go via the csa (obv this would mean he has X more to contribute to his kids clothes....)
(on jsa he would get about 60 ctc for one child if memory serves... per week, and 20.30 cb)

do you work?... earn? if your income is zero, then you would have a nil assesment so would be no worse off...

do you claim csa from your ex?

btw: you could claim for 2 kids, and your ex claim for 1, you do not have to claim for all 3... and even if you are PWC, i believe the fact that your ex has the child for 5 days and 1 overnight you could say he is the PWC (even if for csa reasons he is not) ...

discus this this him? either parent can be paid child benefit, but if both apply it is paid to who is deems the PWC...

also, bear in mind... if a parent is paid cb, it might be hard to change it back to yourself if circumstances change...

and finally... for obvious legal reasons... speak to hmrc (child bnefit dept) tto check the legal implications... you could both be done for fraud if its an "agreement between you"...

gobecgo

Well we don't use the CSA, we did for a while when *I* was on IS (i was single for 2.5years after we split, my eldest was only 4months when i left him) because the system forced us to (i couldn't get benefit unless we went through them) but once they stopped insisting we went to a mutual agreement instead because it was much more flexible and liveable for us all. When i moved in with my OH in 2009 i came off all benefits. At the moment my ex is on JSA, though he was on IB until ATOS told him he is fine to work. He currently pays £7.50/week towards her care. He gets JSA, CTB and HB.

Sorry for the confusion - he doesn't have care of her for 5 days. Twice a week he picks her up from school and has dinner at our house with her/us, leaving just before bedtime. Once a week he has her for about 24 hours, but over 2 days. So actually i realise that's 4x a week, not 5. Anyway he lives quite far from us and her school and has no transport (he's 2 buses away). If he had better housing and was closer to her school we'd share care more.

I earn next to nothing - a few hundred a year doing freelance admin stuff from home. Nothing taxable.

So from what i'm reading here and on the CB bit of the HMRC website:

a) if he claims the CB as if he was the main carer he could also claim the CTC and i could be asked to pay maintenance for the kid my OH already feeds, clothes and houses. (would his income be assessed for this? Or only mine? We're not married but are both on the mortgage.). I can ask him NOT to claim CTC of course.

b) if he DOES claim but tells them how much time i have her my OH's income will STILL be taken into consideration.

Is that about right? (sorry to be thick, i'm 35 weeks pregnant and i cannot make sense of half of this stuff!).

wayne0

only your income (the NRP non resident parent) would be taken into account...

explain to your ex that you would allow him to become the "PWC" for benefit purposes on the provision that he did not follow a csa route etc... and to account for the costs of his visitation / cover the costs for when he has his daughter - and to obviously allow him to provide for her too...

it seems that he is "reasonable" - since he is on JSA he would legally only be abliged to pay ZERO... since he has her one night a week...

obviously this "arrangement" would benefit him to the tune of 80 a week or more which he would then be able to spend more on his daughter / xmas / birthdays / WEEKLY ETC as a result - and could actually mean that perhaps he move into a bigger house (2 bed) nearer to get proper shared care that you hint you would be happy with... and get HB to cover such...

child maintenance would go onto CS2 scheme (the current scheme) until later next year at the earliest for one child...

with you earning between 0 and 100 quid a week, you would be liable for £5 / flat rate.... - which again, having the child for more than one night would mean a zero assesment...

discuss with him perhaps moving nearer to her school (it may not be the best idea to move closer to your house as in same street, but obv suitably to see dtr)...

but considering he has a meal with you, it is clear that your on good terms, so

and to be fair i actually think you make a decent PWC here...

and the CTC... if he claims CB, he would be elegible for CTC... but he doesnt have to go via the CSA to do so... that is his choice, and the GOVt are actually encouraging private agreements ...

perhaps you agree with him that he pay £30 of the CTC to you to cover the cost of feeding clothing etc and the rest he "keep safe" to ensure he can spend quality time with his daughter - take her out / etc...

obv since he is claiming CB he would be classed as a "lone parent" with the perks of such too...

tomtom256

wayne0 wrote: »

only your income (the NRP non resident parent) would be taken into account...

explain to your ex that you would allow him to become the "PWC" for benefit purposes on the provision that he did not follow a csa route etc... and to account for the costs of his visitation / cover the costs for when he has his daughter - and to obviously allow him to provide for her too...

it seems that he is "reasonable" - since he is on JSA he would legally only be abliged to pay ZERO... since he has her one night a week...

obviously this "arrangement" would benefit him to the tune of 80 a week or more which he would then be able to spend more on his daughter / xmas / birthdays / WEEKLY ETC as a result - and could actually mean that perhaps he move into a bigger house (2 bed) nearer to get proper shared care that you hint you would be happy with... and get HB to cover such...

child maintenance would go onto CS2 scheme (the current scheme) until later next year at the earliest for one child...

with you earning between 0 and 100 quid a week, you would be liable for £5 / flat rate.... - which again, having the child for more than one night would mean a zero assesment...

discuss with him perhaps moving nearer to her school (it may not be the best idea to move closer to your house as in same street, but obv suitably to see dtr)...

but considering he has a meal with you, it is clear that your on good terms, so

and to be fair i actually think you make a decent PWC here...

and the CTC... if he claims CB, he would be elegible for CTC... but he doesnt have to go via the CSA to do so... that is his choice, and the GOVt are actually encouraging private agreements ...

perhaps you agree with him that he pay £30 of the CTC to you to cover the cost of feeding clothing etc and the rest he "keep safe" to ensure he can spend quality time with his daughter - take her out / etc...

obv since he is claiming CB he would be classed as a "lone parent" with the perks of such too...

So bascially you advocate that they commit fraud to maximise their income.

My understanding for this to work is your child has to go and live permanently with their father for him to legally be entitled to these benefits, not just a paper move.

Marisco

gobecgo wrote: »

My partner earns between 50 and 60k, but i think we're probably going to just stop the benefit because of the hassle of trying to keep right with the assessment (he has a potential discretionary bonus every year, plus other benefits which change over the course opf the year which are impossible to predict in advance with accuracy).

My eldest's dad is unemployed and on benefit. She lives with me but overnights with him once a week and sees him 5x/week.

Can he claim for her? Legally i mean. If i cease my claim for her and just stop payments for the other 2, can he then claim for her?

Let me see if I have this straight. Your daughter lives with you, making you the PWC (parent with care) your ex is the NRP (non resident parent) Because you won't be able to claim CB whenever the rule comes up for high earners, you want your ex to claim it, although your daughter doesn't live with him, and just visits every day. CB opens the door to other benefits, and also gives your ex the opportunity to claim CSA off you.

But you don't want him to claim CSA, just CB. So really this is just a ploy for your "family" to still claim CB, although your household won't be eligible for it itself. Have I got that right? Anything about this that strikes you as wrong?

The reason the CB is getting cut for high earners is because they are deemed not to need it, and it will save the taxpayers a few quid. Whether they have done it the right way or not , is a different argument, personally I think it should have been done on household income, for reasons that have been already mentioned. If you are concerned that your ex cannot afford to have your child daily, then give him the equivalent of the CB every week yourself. I think you'll be on a sticky wicket if you try it your way.

Voyager2002

bloolagoon wrote: »

You do realise that you are giving him a lot more "clout" by effectively saying the child lives with him.

What if he applied for custody, he is now the child's carer for benefits and so you open up a can of worms.

Also it is benefit fraud and I can not believe anyone would do this, you would be asking your child to lie and say they live with Daddy if someone official asks.

Do you not think that the CB agency will be checking when all of a sudden addresses change when the benefit stops. For £20 per week you must be very desparate to consider fraud and involving your child in that.

The suggestion is certainly not benefit fraud, but an intelligent re-arrangement of the details of living arrangements in response to the incentives offered by the state. And just for the record, when my son's mother agreed that I, rather than her, should receive CB for him, there were no official enquiries whatever.

A more serious point: if a parent is claiming benefits then the details are forwarded to the CSA. So if the OP has her own income then this could be a very bad move.

Marisco

Voyager2002 wrote: »

The suggestion is certainly not benefit fraud, but an intelligent re-arrangement of the details of living arrangements in response to the incentives offered by the state. And just for the record, when my son's mother agreed that I, rather than her, should receive CB for him, there were no official enquiries whatever.

A more serious point: if a parent is claiming benefits then the details are forwarded to the CSA. So if the OP has her own income then this could be a very bad move.

Yes it is. The child does not live with the ex, she lives with her mother, CB is for a child that lives in a household, not for person who the child only visits on a daily basis. My kids used to visit their nana every day, does that mean if I was not eligible for CB, then my mother should get it?

If the ex is claiming benefits then the CSA will not make him claim CM. It used to be a few years ago, that if the PWC was claiming benefits, then the CSA would automatically "kick in" even if the PWC and NRP didn't want them involved. This changed (open to correction here) about 6/7 years ago, and benefits are no longer taken into account for CSA purposes, on the PWC's side. It's immaterial anyway as the ex is not the PWC, and it's the PWC who is eligible for child related benefits.

Sambucus_Nigra

wayne0 wrote: »

obviously this "arrangement" would benefit him to the tune of £80 a week

Eh?????????