Npower dual rate tariff

evigilo

Hi all. Advice needed please as to whether I am to blame for something (as npower have decreed) or not, and whether it is worth pursuing with the ombudsman.

When we moved house last year, moving day was stressful as contracts exchanged at 2pm and we had to be out by 3pm. Not easy when you have kids and pets and no removal company booked. However, we managed to get everything out, although it was closer to 5pm. When we met the previous owner of our new house, who kindly agreed to meet us there to handover the keys and go over the alarm etc, he had opened the gas and electricity meter boxes (both external) and had written down the meter readings for us and for them. My husband looked and agreed with the readings. I called npower who were our existing duel fuel supplier and gave them our change of address details and the meter readings from our old property and the ones from the new property.

I have 2 disabled daughters and use a lot of energy so I have always been on at them to make sure I am on the cheapest tarrif for our high energy usage. Again, I asked them after the move to make sure we got a good deal. I had signed up to paperless billing and paid by direct debit so I never bother unless they write to me and inform me that my monthly payment is going to go up. Then I have a good moan!

Anyway, I received a letter last week asking me to read my electricity meter twice in a 24 hour period, note it on the letter and send it back. There were also questions about whether we have a gas supply (felt like writing yes, you idiots - we pay you for it!) and whether we have economy 7 heaters (no). Then on the back it was waffling on about dual rate meters. I called them to ask why they had sent me this and they said because you have one. First I knew of it, I said and then said but it doesn't matter anyway because I only pay a flat rate for electricity. No you don't he said, you have a dual rate electricity tarrif. So it turns out that for 18 months, I have been paying for an economy 7 tariff (although there was no mention of it in the name of the tariff - online some number or another) without realising it. We have a gas combi boiler and central heating that has been installed for at least 18 years before we moved here so it didn't occur to me that the meter might be a dual rate one. Since the day we moved in, we've never looked at the meter - why would we? It's externally mounted and we don't have a key - same with the gas meter. At our last house, we didn't have economy 7 and I certainly didn't ask for such a tariff here.

Npower say that it is my fault, that I should have known that I had a dual rate meter. I've told them that I wouldn't distinguish a prepayment meter, dual rate meter from any other meter and that I've never looked inside the meter box. I told them that they should have informed me that it was a dual rate meter when I called them and asked them to supply our electricity. I would have asked for it to be removed. They said it's not their responsibility to check whether we have storage heaters or gas central heating, although they were happy to supply our gas too! When I asked for the best tariff, they were just given names online this and that - no mention of economy 7. Then, when that deal expired and we were to be transferred to the standard rate, I called and again asked to be moved to the best deal for us as high energy users. Again only the names of tariffs were used (that mean nothing to me - I just want to know how much it's going to cost me!).

My argument is that I had no way of knowing, nor any reason to suspect that I had a dual rate meter and was paying for an economy 7 tarrif when I don't use electricity at night. My washing machine goes from morning until night because of my daughter but it never goes on after midnight. I have asked them to calculate how much this has cost me, compared to the best normal tariff but they have refused. They are refusing to put me onto the correct tariff retrospectively and credit me with the difference. Because I keep escalating this to the next level in the complaints chain, they still haven't taken me off the flaming tariff either!! The latest is that they say it will mention dual rate tariff somewhere on my bills so I should have spotted it. They also asked me why the previous owners still had a dual rate tariff when the house had gas central heating - how the hell should I know! :mad:

As mentioned earlier, I signed up to paperless billing at my old address so I checked and I've had no bills since we moved. I also haven't received paper copies. When I questioned why I hadn't had online bills, despite still being on an online tariff, I was told that I would have had to request it again when I moved because they set me up as a new customer with a different account number and everything so nothing was carried forward from our old account at the old address. Funny that - they kept my bank details and have been taking money every month!!

So, is it all my own fault ... or should npower shoulder the blame. Be honest ... I can take it ... I think

chris1973

Npower say that it is my fault, that I should have known that I had a dual rate meter

I'd make Npower right. Fuel bills take a huge chunk of my annual salary, and once the stress of moving day was behind me the first thing i'd want to find out is

(a) what tariff I (the property) was currently on,

(b)was there a better tariff I could move to in order to save money from ASAP,

(c) Take a meter reading ASAP, so that the Utility Company could be informed of the date i'd moved in and be given the reading on that day, because I don't want an estimated reading where I may end up paying for the previous occupiers' usage.

I move around a lot with my Employment, so I even take a digital picture of the meter on the day i move in, complete with reading and date / time shown on the meter in case there is any dispute later (I don't trust utility companies and neither should you!)

and yes part of the above would involve finding out whether I (the property) had a single or dual rate meter.

Since the day we moved in, we've never looked at the meter - why would we?

In order to budget perhaps and to double check that your bills / direct debits are correctly and accurately reflecting your usage?. Usually the people who don't check their reading / submit readings are the ones here 12 months later asking for advice on a £1000 'catch up' bill!!!.

You should have also 'looked at the meter' at least once, in order to get the reading on the day you moved in, unless you want to foot part of the bill for the previous occupier?.

I don't know why some people treat walking around to the side of the house to read their meter(s) once a month / quarter to be like planning an arctic expedition?. Seriously it can be done whilst the kettle is boiling during an average tv soap opera commercial break!.

It's externally mounted and we don't have a key

Not really an excuse nor the liability of the Utility company either.

Available from most DIY shops or online from many sources

http://painterschoice.co.uk/meterbox.htm
http://www.easylocks.co.uk/easylocks-512-meter-box-key-gas-electric-meter-box-utility-keys-p-4328.html
http://www.manchester-hardware.co.uk/product_info.php/blackspur-meter-box-key-metal-uk101-p-5518

Sorry, but you haven't really given any real grounds to hold Npower to blame for this. Besides, when it comes to reading and checking your billing, you are closer to the actual meter than they are!!

As mentioned earlier, I signed up to paperless billing at my old address so I checked and I've had no bills since we moved. I also haven't received paper copies. When I questioned why I hadn't had online bills, despite still being on an online tariff, I was told that I would have had to request it again when I moved because they set me up as a new customer with a different account number and everything so nothing was carried forward from our old account at the old address. Funny that - they kept my bank details and have been taking money every month!!

So how did you tell them that you had moved?. Did you write to them, giving them the new address, the meter reading and details from the new property on the day you moved in, the meter reading from the old property on the day you moved out, and did you register on their website using the new property details?.

If not, then sorry but the onus is on you to do all of the above, if you haven't then you can't really pass the buck for Npower not being able to use a crystal ball.

Funny that - they kept my bank details and have been taking money every month!!

Lets just hope you haven't being still paying off the bills on your old property eh?!, which is quite possible if you haven't written to them and told them of the changes and supplied the (new) and (final) meter readings for both properties on moving day. It would also probably explain why you haven't had a bill for your new property if they haven't 'officially' been informed that you are the new owner and bill payer.

There may be reasons why the previous occupier had Economy 7, maybe they worked shifts or used the Tumble Dryer a lot (overnight), maybe they suffered from Insomnia etc, whether the current tariff and meter arrangements suit you, is down to you as the new owner to find out and change as appropriate

dogshome

I'm afraid that chris 1973 is quite right in that n'power are not at fault - They aren't the keepers of a register of what meters are in what property, this job is done by National Agencies who operate behind the scenes and n'power get their information from them.

However, there are still concerns:
You had n'power at your old address and immediately adopted them for your new one. This OK if they were already supplying the previous owner, but are you sure that this was the case? - There is the possibilty that the seller had different supplier who's still awaiting someone to register occupation at your address so they can send them bills.

You say you have not had any bills, either through the post or online since moving in last year - n'power are very aware of the "No back-billing beyond 12 months" limitation if they fail to bill you, so something is very wrong somehere - Maybe n'power were not the seller's supplier

Bills list your Meter No. and the exact title of the tariff you are on - Consumers who have been "wised up" by past experience will check the Meter No on the bill against that on the actual meter, and that the name of the tariff on the bill and it's prices is the one they agreed to, but without bills you have not been able to make these checks, WHICH IS CAUSE FOR a written Complaint

If it were me, as a first step I'd phone n'power and ask them for my meter No., then check it against the meter

evigilo

chris1973 wrote: »

once the stress of moving day was behind me the first thing i'd want to find out is

(a) what tariff I (the property) was currently on,

(b)was there a better tariff I could move to in order to save money from ASAP,

(c) Take a meter reading ASAP, so that the Utility Company could be informed of the date i'd moved in and be given the reading on that day, because I don't want an estimated reading where I may end up paying for the previous occupiers' usage.

chris1973 wrote: »

So how did you tell them that you had moved?. Did you write to them, giving them the new address, the meter reading and details from the new property on the day you moved in, the meter reading from the old property on the day you moved out, and did you register on their website using the new property details?.

If not, then sorry but the onus is on you to do all of the above, if you haven't then you can't really pass the buck for Npower not being able to use a crystal ball.

I had no idea which energy company the previous occupiers used so why would I expect npower to know what tariff the property was on when we moved in? I stated in my post that I had called npower to give them the meter reading of my old property and the new one (so no crystal ball or sarcasm required). I also stated that the previous occupier had written down the meter readings for both gas and electricity for both of us and that my husband stood with him and checked. My husband has never seen a dual rate meter - he just checked that the meter reading that was written down matched the one on the meter. I have been and looked at the meter (the man called to read it this afternoon so I took the opportunity) - nothing on there stating that it is a dual rate meter ... yes it has lots of dials but it doesn't shout 'dual rate' at me. When I asked the meter reader he said that if he hadn't had training on the different types of meter, he wouldn't recognise that it was dual rate either!

I also mentioned in my post that when I called them and gave them the meter readings that I asked them for the best tariff for us as a high energy using family.

chris1973 wrote: »

Lets just hope you haven't being still paying off the bills on your old property eh?!, which is quite possible if you haven't written to them and told them of the changes and supplied the (new) and (final) meter readings for both properties on moving day. It would also probably explain why you haven't had a bill for your new property if they haven't 'officially' been informed that you are the new owner and bill payer.

And yes, once again ... I did state in my post that I had called npower and told them that I'd moved and that I gave them the new address and the meter readings from both properties. So no reason for not getting any bills because they have been 'officially' informed. Well except for npower's decision to remove me from paperless billing and not reinstate paper billing!


Some come on ... how many people moving into a house with gas central heating installed would think to ask if the meter was a standard single rate one or not? Like I say - the meter has nothing written on it that states it isn't a 'normal' meter. Npower admit that the vast majority of their customers don't have these dual rate meters, so why on earth would I think that I had one - and why would they assume that I knew about it? It doesn't come up on the paperwork that the solicitor gathered about the property, or the comprehensive survey that we had done.

chris1973 wrote: »

I don't know why some people treat walking around to the side of the house to read their meter(s) once a month / quarter to be like planning an arctic expedition?. Seriously it can be done whilst the kettle is boiling during an average tv soap opera commercial break!.

Perhaps the fact that we both work and have 3 children, two of whom are disabled (as I mentioned in my post), means that we don't have 5 minutes to ourselves. When I am not at work, I am attending hospital or therapy appointments with them or their special needs activities, doing physio exercises, washing and drying clothes and bedding because they have medical conditions that necessitate a lot of washing (I'll not spell it out), bathing them, changing their clothes and cleaning carpets (for the same reason) and the car's upholstery. They have respiratory conditions that require the house to be damp dusted and vacuumed every other day. Every spare second is either spent with my children or trying to get some sleep as neither of them go through the night - ever. So ... seriously ... I wouldn't compare it to an arctic expedition ... but I wouldn't say it is my number one priority. My children are. If someone cocks up reading the meter that resulted in a large bill, I would tackle it then. Unfortunately, I don't have time to try to prevent every problem that might occur in the future ... I barely have time to tackle them when they do occur.

chris1973 wrote: »

There may be reasons why the previous occupier had Economy 7, maybe they worked shifts or used the Tumble Dryer a lot (overnight), maybe they suffered from Insomnia etc, whether the current tariff and meter arrangements suit you, is down to you as the new owner to find out and change as appropriate

I have managed to track down the previous occupiers and they didn't know that it was a dual rate meter either which explains why they only took one reading from the meter. They were here for over 20 years. The property had gas central heating when they moved in and that meter was also in place. Their electricity supplier (not npower) didn't put them on a dual rate tariff in the whole time they lived here - at least as far as they know!

I have called npower several times to check whether there is a cheaper tariff because of the amount of washing and drying that I do every day - before work, as soon as I walk through the door from work. Never have they said, why don't you wash after midnight? I also have to have the heating on more than most because of my daughters (and use a lot of hot water) and I have asked the same question of them about my gas tariff so they know that we have gas central heating. They have even suggested that I take out their boiler and heating care package so that my boiler is serviced and maintained and thus less likely to break down.

Surely, just once someone from npower could have mentioned that we had a dual rate meter and were on an economy 7 tariff. When I called with our change of address details and asked for the best tariff and only gave them one reading from the meter (surely it should have been two readings that were required) shouldn't they have questioned this? When npower staff refer to tariff online whatever number, should I recognise that it is an economy 7 tariff from its name? Or should npower tell me exactly what type of tariff it is?

But obviously ... it is my fault because neither my husband nor the previous occupiers could recognise what type of meter was. It must be my fault that npower haven't been sending my any bills (apparently it states on them somewhere that it is an economy 7 tariff so if they'd bothered sending them either paperlessly or through the post, I might've realised sooner).

It must be nice to be perfect, Chris :A

victor2

evigilo wrote: »

When we met the previous owner of our new house, who kindly agreed to meet us there to handover the keys and go over the alarm etc, he had opened the gas and electricity meter boxes (both external) and had written down the meter readings for us and for them.

So you should have had the two different electricity readings for day and night use, and should have realised it was an E7 meter.
As others have said, you'll have to take responsibility for that.
The bills would have indicated day and night use of electricity also, with different rates.
Unfortunate that you didn't look into it sooner, but I don't see npower doing much to help you out unless it's some sort of goodwill gesture.

victor2

evigilo wrote: »

I have been and looked at the meter (the man called to read it this afternoon so I took the opportunity) - nothing on there stating that it is a dual rate meter ... yes it has lots of dials but it doesn't shout 'dual rate' at me. When I asked the meter reader he said that if he hadn't had training on the different types of meter, he wouldn't recognise that it was dual rate either!

A meter reader who doesn't know how to read an E7 meter?? Don't think he'll have a job for long!

evigilo

There are 4 dials on the meter with numbers on. The previous occupier had recorded the number on the largest of these dials to send off to his supplier and we gave the same reading to npower - they've never questioned it. There is no mention on the meter of day or night. So I haven't a clue how I was supposed to know. The previous occupiers didn't realise it was a dual rate meter either and they were here for 20 years!

When I said we gave npower the meter readings, I meant one reading for the electricity meter and one reading for the gas.

evigilo

victor2 wrote: »

A meter reader who doesn't know how to read an E7 meter?? Don't think he'll have a job for long!

Read my post properly!!! That isn't what I said! :rotfl:

victor2

evigilo wrote: »

Read my post properly!!! That isn't what I said! :rotfl:

Fair comment. Sorry. Didn't read it properly!

evigilo

Well, we all make mistakes!

[Deleted User]

evigilo wrote: »

There are 4 dials on the meter with numbers on. The previous occupier had recorded the number on the largest of these dials to send off to his supplier and we gave the same reading to npower - they've never questioned it. There is no mention on the meter of day or night. So I haven't a clue how I was supposed to know. The previous occupiers didn't realise it was a dual rate meter either and they were here for 20 years!

When I said we gave npower the meter readings, I meant one reading for the electricity meter and one reading for the gas.

By "dials " I assume you mean "registers " The digital meters do have 4 of these, low,high, a display of 88888 as a meter check, and Total which would most likely( but not always if its gone round the clock ) be the highest. Yes, a quick glance at these meters you would nt know if it was a dual rate, but one look at the bill you surely would, with day/night or low/normal clearly shown. A lot of these meters have reverted back to single rate meters over the years, The meter remains and supplier can either total the high and low or just read the Total ( "T" on the meter), once again obvious with a look at the bill where it would just be showing one rate, but poss split into primary and secondary units for standing charge payments in the primary units.