eBay, Paypal and Small Claims in Scotland

didi72

Help! I'm based in Scotland and bought an item on eBay from a seller in England but received an empty box.

It seems pretty clear that the seller is a fraud (he has changed his feedback to private and received a few negatives) so after various emails and reporting it to the police in Scotland, I took it to a Paypal dispute which they decided in my favour but, as seems pretty common, they could only retrieve £105 of the total £517. The Paypal transaction was funded by a bank account so I don't even have credit card protection.

The police aren't interested and suggested I take it to the small claims court but they have said that because the seller is in England, even if they decide in my favour it would be difficult to force them to pay up.

Can anyone suggest anything else I can try or do I have to wave goodbye to my money?

frivolous_fay

Have you considered taking it to the seller's local police? Or clubbing together with other victims? (People power!)

spinning_hamster_wheel

I'm in scotland, what you should do is lodge a small claim with your local sheriff court;

go to the civil sheriff clerks office, tell the sheriff clark you want to raise a small claim against a person domiciled in England and ask if my domicile as the pursuer is sufficient to raise this action at this court.

If it is so, then the fee is £39, almost certainly decree will be granted in your favour as the person you are claiming against will not defend it. Once a decree is passed in your favour obtain a charge for payment and instruct a sheriff officer to affect an arrestment of wages.

Your problem is that English courts may not recognise a decree granted in Scotland, even if they do, sheriff officers in England might not do anything for you. Basically, once decree has been granted (decree is just a fancy term meaning that the court recognises you are entitled to whatever remedy you have asked for) you are looking to effect diligence by attachment or arrestment of wages (or the English equivalent)

to raise a small claims action costs about £39 quid. assuming the scottish court has jurisdiction which i think it may have, you will almost certainly have decree passed in your favour. but then you have more expenses and my instinct is that you are looking at total expenditure of around £150 - £200 with no guarantee you will recover any monies. Additionally, the maxmimum expenses award you are entitled to is £75 unless the sheriff was of the mind that any defence lodged was frivolous in which case expenses may be awarded on the ordinary cause scale.

Personally, I think you are on to plums though.

Have you considered online money recovery provisions in the first instance? I read about this previously but do not know anything about it.

teedy23

What a shame, these things happen Didi72. I have no advice to give, but surely you have some recourse through the law. If hamsters right it seems you dont really. If you pay out to take this to court and you dont get any satisfaction, then your throwing good money after bad, how galling for you

martindow

Is it possible for someone resident in Scotland to use an English small claims court in this case? It would involve travelling across the border for the hearing, but if the amount being claimed was substantial travelling to Carlisle or wherever might be worthwhile.

digerati

didi72, no need to wave goodbye to your hard-earned money or get involved in lengthy civil proceeding. Many small-scale fraud cases are settled long before they get to court with the fraudster making full restitution. Often, all it takes is a phone call to resolve any 'misunderstanding'.

If you have a friend, associate, relative or old school mate in the Police or Security forces, you can often call in a favour. Or if you can convince a police officer you have a valid complaint, they'll often help you too. Ask them to make a phone call to the seller - something along the lines of "they have received a complaint against them and when would it be convenient to interview them..." - many non-performing sellers or petty fraudsters will agree to a full refund there and then before it becomes more 'official'...

Also be aware that when there is more than one victim, the Police are more inclined to investigate as it's seen as a more productive use of their (often) limited resources. (Isolated cases are usually put on the back burner or dismissed - unless you light a fire under the investigating Officer.)

Steps to take

Ring your local Police station and make an appointment to see a CID officer. Don’t frustrate yourself by arguing your case with a desk clerk in reception - they are instructed to dismiss ALL cases of 'fraud' as civil matters. (Fewer 'open' cases look better to the bureaucrats.)

Almost every UK (including Scottish) Police Station now has at least one specialist CID Officer knowledgeable about online fraud and e-crime (including eBay and PayPal). Just in case whomever you speak to isn't up to speed with eBay, bring these contact details with you - they will need them to contact eBay UK.

Email: [URL="mailto:law-enforcement@ebay.com"]law-enforcement@ebay.com[/URL]
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/law_enforcement.html
Fax: 0207-681-2389

Come prepared with printed copies of: eBay auction(s), payment details, all email between you and the fraudster or their other victims, and finally notes of any telephone conversations you have had with fraudster, PayPal or eBay.

Lastly, contact as many of this person's other victims as possible (replace 'scam' with fraudster's ebay ID) so you can add their names and details to your complaint. This way they can coordinate with the Police CID Officer in the seller's locale investigating your case. Ask them to also file complaints so the Police can quickly see that it isn't an isolated case, but rather a large-scale premeditated fraud.

Good luck!

CFC

didi72 wrote: »

Help! I'm based in Scotland and bought an item on eBay from a seller in England but received an empty box.

It seems pretty clear that the seller is a fraud (he has changed his feedback to private and received a few negatives) so after various emails and reporting it to the police in Scotland, I took it to a Paypal dispute which they decided in my favour but, as seems pretty common, they could only retrieve £105 of the total £517. The Paypal transaction was funded by a bank account so I don't even have credit card protection.

The police aren't interested and suggested I take it to the small claims court but they have said that because the seller is in England, even if they decide in my favour it would be difficult to force them to pay up.

Can anyone suggest anything else I can try or do I have to wave goodbye to my money?

Best of luck in getting your money back. There appears to be quite a lot of fraud on Ebay.

Top tips for others

Seriously consider if you wish to buy or sell anything expensive without picking it up in person. You'e dealing with a random selection of people and organised criminal scams, along with nice ordinary people too.
Fund your PayPal account with a credit card.

didi72

Many thanks for all the advice. I tried contacting the police in the sellers area and explained that he was obviously scamming a few people but they aren't interested which is pretty disappointing since I'm sure all it would take is them turning up on the doorstep to give him a fright! The idea of getting together all the other defrauded buyers was good too but because this guy has private feedback I can't find out who they are now.

I've made an appointment with a court adviser here to see about making a small claim but the idea of making a claim in the English courts could be a winner - the Scotland / England divide seems to be causing the problem.

I also have a friend with a daughter in the police so will try the phone call approach either from them or by going back to my local police.

Fingers crossed!