Comet and my consumer rights if any

shocky_2

Uncertain wrote: »

I understand the position regarding items bought before the company went "bust".

However my point was that the administrators appear to be carrying on trading but refusing to honour their sale of good act obligations on item bought since the administration started.

Take this example....

If I buy a TV in Currys and it goes faulty a few days later my claim is against Currys who must repair, replace or refund.

If I walk across the road to Comet (in administration) I can buy the same TV yet they point to a notice saying that my only claim if there is a fault is against the manufacturer (with whom I have no contract).

Are there special rules that allow a company in administration to do this?

Alternatively, can I sign away my sale of goods act rights against the shop in exchange for a lower price?

Finally, what happens if they tell me I get the full manufacturers guarantee yet this is not true because Comet "bought out" the guarantees in order to get the items at a lower price? Would I have a claim against the administrators (as opposed to Comet in administration) as they provided false information?

Technically you would have a claim against the company for breach of the sale of goods act. You cannot sign away your basic consumer rights. You could bring a court claim for breach of your rights and would be awarded damages.

However, remember that other people also have legal rights. The suppliers and employees who haven't been paid also have legal claims against the company. Even if a court awards your damages for breach of your consumer rights, you are still treated equally with all the other creditors. In practice, it is unlikely your consumer rights are worthless because there probably won't be any money left for the unsecured creditors.

There aren't really any situations where you can sue the administrators. The administrators are simply insolvency professionals brought in to try and solve the mess, it isn't their fault the company cannot honour its legal obligations.

Uncertain

youngsolicitor wrote: »

There aren't really any situations where you can sue the administrators. The administrators are simply insolvency professionals brought in to try and solve the mess, it isn't their fault the company cannot honour its legal obligations.

What even if they are encouraging people to buy with an (apparently) false promise that there will be a manufacturer's warranty?

I fully understand everything else but I wonder if they were aware when they made that statement that some manufacturer's warranties may have been bought out so not available to the consumer.

A related point.....

If the warranty was not bought out, does the manufacturer have the right to not honour it because Comet owes them money?

If the goods in question were bought by Comet some time ago they will most likely have been paid for. Any money owed will probably be for more recent stock?

wealdroam

Uncertain wrote: »

What even if they are encouraging people to buy with an (apparently) false promise that there will be a manufacturer's warranty?

Yes.

In the same way that if a sales person in Asda tells an untruth, you cannot sue him/her for that.

It is the corporate body that you have a disagreement with.

Administrators are just people working for the business.

Of course if the business believes that people that they employ, as employees, sub-contractors or even administrators, they can if they wish take appropriate action.

CoolHotCold

Uncertain wrote: »

If the warranty was not bought out, does the manufacturer have the right to not honour it because Comet owes them money?

Any half decent manufacturer will have a legal team and this legal team will of included a clause to the effect of

"This warranty may become void at any time"

ThumbRemote

youngsolicitor wrote: »

However, remember that other people also have legal rights. The suppliers and employees who haven't been paid also have legal claims against the company. Even if a court awards your damages for breach of your consumer rights, you are still treated equally with all the other creditors. In practice, it is unlikely your consumer rights are worthless because there probably won't be any money left for the unsecured creditors.

There aren't really any situations where you can sue the administrators. The administrators are simply insolvency professionals brought in to try and solve the mess, it isn't their fault the company cannot honour its legal obligations.

This is incorrect, because you are comparing two different scenarios:

Comet before administration went bust, owing money. Thus staff are out of pocket, people become creditor etc.

Comet after administration are now being run by the administrators. New creditors have a claim against the administrators. Hence staff are now being paid for futehr hours they work.

As 'Comet in administration' are now continuing to trade, any new purchases are covered by the Sale of Goods act, with the retailer being Comet and the administrators. You are not an unsecured creditor, as the clock has now been reset.

Slowhand

youngsolicitor wrote: »

Technically you would have a claim against the company for breach of the sale of goods act. You cannot sign away your basic consumer rights. You could bring a court claim for breach of your rights and would be awarded damages.

However, remember that other people also have legal rights. The suppliers and employees who haven't been paid also have legal claims against the company. Even if a court awards your damages for breach of your consumer rights, you are still treated equally with all the other creditors. In practice, it is unlikely your consumer rights are worthless because there probably won't be any money left for the unsecured creditors.

There aren't really any situations where you can sue the administrators. The administrators are simply insolvency professionals brought in to try and solve the mess, it isn't their fault the company cannot honour its legal obligations.

Really? So if administrators act unlawfully are you saying nobody can sue them? Are you a VERY youngsolicitor...1st year maybe?

Uncertain

ThumbRemote wrote: »

This is incorrect, because you are comparing two different scenarios:

Comet before administration went bust, owing money. Thus staff are out of pocket, people become creditor etc.

Comet after administration are now being run by the administrators. New creditors have a claim against the administrators. Hence staff are now being paid for futehr hours they work.

As 'Comet in administration' are now continuing to trade, any new purchases are covered by the Sale of Goods act, with the retailer being Comet and the administrators. You are not an unsecured creditor, as the clock has now been reset.

That really was the point I was questioning.

It may be (I don't know) that some special rules apply to a company trading whilst in administration but it seems to me there must be some comeback on somebody if they are falsely claiming that the full manafacturers warranty applies.

shocky_2

ThumbRemote wrote: »

This is incorrect, because you are comparing two different scenarios:

Comet before administration went bust, owing money. Thus staff are out of pocket, people become creditor etc.

Comet after administration are now being run by the administrators. New creditors have a claim against the administrators. Hence staff are now being paid for futehr hours they work.

As 'Comet in administration' are now continuing to trade, any new purchases are covered by the Sale of Goods act, with the retailer being Comet and the administrators. You are not an unsecured creditor, as the clock has now been reset.

This is not quite correct. You are right that people who buy from Comet after it entered administration will be protected. I was tempted to explain this in my first post but decided not to because it is already quite long.

However, it is for a different reason than what you describe. In all cases your contract is with Comet NOT with the administrators. The administrators do not take on personal liability. The reason is that, if you deal with a company after it has entered administration, your debt is treated as an "expense of the administration" and you are paid in priority to the general unsecured creditors.

This matters for two reasons. First, you have no contract with the administrators so you cannot sue them. Second, if the entity in administration runs out of money so badly that it cannot even pay all the expenses of the administration, then you still won't get paid.

Slowhand wrote: »

Really? So if administrators act unlawfully are you saying nobody can sue them? Are you a VERY youngsolicitor...1st year maybe?

The point is that you are dealing with Comet, not with the administrators. You cannot sue the administrators any more than you can sue the directors of Tesco about your shopping.

Obviously I am not saying you can never ever sue the administrators. But the circumstances in which you can do are incredibly limited, unless you have deliberate misconduct and fraud you are not going to get anywhere. There is certainly no way that anyone in the situation we were actually discussing, namely a situation where someone has bought a product from Comet and now finds that the manufacturer's warranty is not being honoured, could ever sue the administrators.

shocky_2

Uncertain wrote: »

What even if they are encouraging people to buy with an (apparently) false promise that there will be a manufacturer's warranty?

I fully understand everything else but I wonder if they were aware when they made that statement that some manufacturer's warranties may have been bought out so not available to the consumer.

Your contract is still with Comet. The situations in which you can sue the administrators are similar to the situations in which you could sue the directors of Tesco about your shopping.

You would really need to prove some sort of intentional fraud which would be almost impossible to do. You don't have a motive. Administrators work to an hourly rate so there is no incentive for them to order the company to mislead customers; the unsecured creditors would benefit but not the administrators.

Remember that the administrators are called into companies which are in a right mess. It isn't surprising that companies in trouble may have tried to mislead consumers in a failed attempt to stay afloat. Administrators should follow good business practice but realistically there are always going to be problems which they cannot immediately sort.

A related point.....

If the warranty was not bought out, does the manufacturer have the right to not honour it because Comet owes them money?

If the goods in question were bought by Comet some time ago they will most likely have been paid for. Any money owed will probably be for more recent stock?

In practiceI think it would be very difficult to enforce the warranty.

It depends on the contract between Comet and the supplier. If the contract has a provision stating that the warranty does not have to be honoured if Comet are in default, the manufacturer could rely on that. If not then the warranty would still be valid between Comet and the manufacturer. In theory Comet could sue the manufacturer for damages (and potentially a consumer under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999, although this is very difficult), but the manufacturer could set-off the debt owed by Comet taking you back to square one. That said, personally I would expect most large manufacturers to honour their warranties as it is a reputational issue for them.

It is unlikely that the goods were paid for. Most large retailers have credit terms with their suppliers, it is unlikely that Comet will ever pay for all of its goods.

Graham1853

Does anyone know how to commence the 'Chargeback procedure' - having paid for a faulty tv from Comet with a debit card - which they now won't replace