Old charge on title

mstopham

Hello,

I am hoping you can help.

My mother owns a property, this was bought from her mother in 2001, rented out after her death in 2002 and the mortgage on it paid off in Feb 2004.
This property has remained mortgage free for 8 years 9 months (so over the 6 year period for data retention).
However we have now come to change ownership (25% each for my brother and I 50% for our mother) and raise capital with a mortgage.
The solicitor carrying out the work has obtained the Official copy of register of title
This shows my mother as the Title absolute.
However in the charges register dated 21.06.2001 relating to 04.06.2001 there is a charge in favour of THE MORTGAGE BUSINESS PLC. Company registration 1997277.
This mortgage was paid off on 24/02/2004 (£45000). However it would appear that the charge was not removed.

We have contacted TMB who are unable to locate any evidence one way or the other on this. No account number/mortgage reference, nothing. This would make some sense, if they closed the mortgage account in Feb 2004 I would expect it to be deleted around Mar 2010. However it would appear they have not completed the process by removing their charge on the property.

What I would like to know is what can we do to get the charge removed when the company with the charge are coming up with nothing? Obviously this is preventing us raising finance in this instance but would block selling the property and potentially transfer of ownership as well.

starsky32

I would make a formal complaint to the mortgage business Plc relating to this. By doing this it will make sure they deal with your problem correctly and get the charge removed. It also means they have 8 weeks to deal with the complaint satisfactory or you can go to the ombudsman.
Basically it will give them the kick up the bum that you are serious and want there error sorted out. Your enquiry has probably landed on the desk of someone who is not quite sure of what to do so is fobbing you off and hoping your next enquiry goes to someone else so they dont have to search through all the old data. By law the info will be there somewhere for them it just requires work to find it. (I worked for mortgage company for 8 years)

magpiecottage

starsky32 wrote: »

I would make a formal complaint to the mortgage business Plc relating to this. By doing this it will make sure they deal with your problem correctly and get the charge removed. It also means they have 8 weeks to deal with the complaint satisfactory or you can go to the ombudsman.
Basically it will give them the kick up the bum that you are serious and want there error sorted out.

It is not necessarily their error. If they provided the correct discharge of the mortgage to the OP's mother then they have have no further responsibility. It is for the former borrower to get this recorded by the Land Registry. This is normally done by the Solicitor dealing with the sale of the property.

Your enquiry has probably landed on the desk of someone who is not quite sure of what to do so is fobbing you off and hoping your next enquiry goes to someone else so they dont have to search through all the old data. By law the info will be there somewhere for them it just requires work to find it. (I worked for mortgage company for 8 years)

Which law do you have in mind?

The fifth Data Protection Principle (part of the Data Protection Act 1998) says "Personal data processed for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes."

This seems to contradict your assertion.

Land_Registry

The evidence that the charge has been redeemed or 'discharged' will normally come from the lender themselves. Nowadays much of this is done electronically but in 2004 it is possible that they would have produced paper evidence, a form DS1, which may have been sent to your Mother as the named borrower - you mention the date and amount paid off in 2004 so is there any other evidence referring to a DS1 or some other means of discharge?

If there is no other mention then it might be prudent to provide TMB with copies of the paperwork/evidence you do have and request that they either remove the charge or supply you with the form DS1 to do so. They may simply deal with this electronically though once they have established that their security no longer exists.

It may also be worth contacting the Land Registry just in case an application was made to remove the charge or to transmit an electronic discharge back in 2004 - whilst I think this is unlikely as the system would have been paper-based then it is worth checking just in case something was lodged. You can Contact Us by email with the details i.e. property address, title number, date of charge and name of lender. We can then check our records to see if anything relevant was lodged during that time.

mstopham

Thanks for the replies,
The solicitor that dealt with the sale at the time (same one we have used as a family for many years and are using again) does not have any such details.
It is possible that my mother was sent a DS1 form but if she was either it wasn't received or was lost/stolen/destroyed/ignored, whichever way there is no such paperwork lying around and no-one can recollect seeing such a form or anything relating to it.
I had already contacted the land registry and received a response (I detailed the title deed number and relevant dates etc) and got the following answer:

A registered charge can only be removed from the register on application by the Lender (usually in form DS1) or by order of the court. The only assistance Land Registry may be able to supply is to provide you with a copy of the mortgage deed which may contain further information you can present to the lender. You can apply for this using form OC2 (cost £11).

So I am thinking we should get the mortgage deed but before I do - can anyone advise if this is likely to contain helpful information or would I be spending £11 on a bit of worthless paper? (with no advice I would go ahead and get it to find out).

It is looking more and more like we need to press the Mortgage Business into releasing the charge. Even if they did everything correctly and my mother or solicitor didn't follow something up 8 years ago the solution now would appear to be the same - get TMB to file the DS1 form...

Any further advice appreciated.

Land_Registry

The copy mortgage deed may contain some additional elements relevant to the lender to assist them in tracing a record BUT only they can advise on that. A mortgage reference or Account number may be quoted although not all mortgage lenders add such details to the document filed at Land Registry - again TMB should be able to advise

If they are suggesting that they cannot trace any details based on name alone but would be able to using the mortgage re or account number then getitng a copy would appear to be the logical course to go

mstopham

Thanks, this seems to be the way to go then *in case* they contain the relevant details. However it is the solicitor that has asked for the mortgage account/reference number (presumably to then contact TMB and proceed further). I guess this may work as it could be the case mentioned earlier of some more nudging needed at TMB to search the archives for the paperwork and the more info I can give them the easier this should be. I shall follow this course and see where it leads. Thanks