Credit card fraud

kevshares

Hi guys (and dolls) i'm a newbie to the site so please re direct me if i'm off course......

I have a problem in that last month I bought a low insurance car for my daughter to share with us as it was her 17th yesterday and started driving with L plates. Unfortunately had a knock on the door from police lady saying that the car had been bought by previous owner from a Citroen main dealer, with a fraudulent cloned credit card (£6250!).
She seemed to be implying that the garage owner wanted to get in touch (pursue?) about the car. Log book has come through etc and I have bill of sale (bought in good faith obviously) but dont know how I stand. I would have thought Credit Card company will be out of pocket as a fraud and that car dealer had been paid his funds when the transaction went through ? Any help would be appreciated . Thanks, Kevin

Hominu

It'll be treated the same as any other stolen goods, you could lose the vehicle and you'll have to battle with your CC company. The main dealer will be wanting it back as it was never paid for. You paid a fraudster and should claim back your payment if possible.

Gromitt

Yes, theres a chance you'll be left without a car and having to attempt to get your money back from the seller.

A log book is only proof that you are the registered keeper of the vehicle, its not proof of the owner.

kevshares

After spending all day yesterday getting advice it is not as clear cut as you think since it was bought in good faith (i.e. no criminal involvement in the fraud).

Police will not be involved unless they wish to impound the vehicle for a while to check for any forensic evidence of the guy who sold me the vehicle (unlikely as I cleaned it thoroughly for my daughter and they are aware of this). All they require is a "Undertaking retention of property" to be signed by me so that I do not sell it on in the event that they want to "CSI" it for (DNA?) evidence of the fraudster.

Beyond this it is only a civil matter (ie. doesn't count as stolen property as the Police would be involved for this and they say they will not be - i.e. it is not a case of knowingly "receiving stolen property").

Beyond this, if the Merchant have not fulfilled their obligation of making sufficient checks (i.e. card not present transaction possibly on a large transaction as this wouldn't even require a cloned credit card just the card details), then they would get a "chargeback" by the CC company. In this instance the merchant should have "chargeback insurance" who would then pick up the tab.

It seems to me the only instance whereby the CC company would be liable is when it is a lost or stolen cc (with known PIN) that has been used at a merchants therefore for all intense and purposes the merchant would be doing all they can to ensure a "good" transaction and not know that the fraudster is not the bone fide owner of the cc.

I suppose a wake up call for anyone in business is that if they wish to do "card not present" transactions for large value goods then they really should make sure they have sufficient "chargeback insurance" cover to cover the worse case scenario of there being a fraudulent transaction.

I HOPE THIS HELPS WITH ANYONE ELSE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BUY A VEHICLE IN THE SAME WAY AS EVEN AN HPI CHECK AND PHYSICAL VIN CHECK ETC IS NOT ENOUGH TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN. ANOTHER POINT IS THAT THIS COULD HAVE EVEN HAPPENED VIA A DEALER IF THEY HAD BOUGHT IT IN THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES (FROM SOMEONE WHO HAD OBTAINED IT DISHONESTLY) AND THEN SOLD IT ON TO A CUSTOMER. THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY IS THE ISSUE BEFORE THE BONE FIDE CC OWNER GETS THEIR MONTHLY STATEMENT AND SEES THE ROGUE TRANSACTION AND SETS THE BALL ROLLING WITH THE CC COMPANY TRIGGERING AN INVESTIGATION.

(based on wikipedia info and other documented information elsewhere, therefore valid - link not allowed as per MSE rules).

ps. I knew about the logbook not being proof of ownership but thanks anyway, this is a great forum and will use again.