Peer-to-peer lending sites: MSE guide discussion

jamesd

I have previously mentioned SavingStream as a P2P platform to consider. I withdraw any implied or actual recommendation to use this platform until it is clear why in relation to their loan PBL20:

1. the ultimate borrower was described as an individual when it was in fact a limited company with the platform itself apparently acquiring a 10% ownership interest as part of the deal.
2. the value used for calculation loan to value was significantly greater than the recent purchase price paid by the borrower.
3. planning permission was described as granted when it had not been and the applicant was in an apparently acrimonious discussion with planners that ultimately resulted in the application being withdrawn after it became clear that it would not be granted.
4. the platform was offering its own corporate guarantee in relation to capital and interest payments but is now citing terms and conditions denying those guarantees.
5. the extent to which similar issues may exist for other loans.

None of this should be taken as an accusation, they are simply things that appear to be inconsistencies which have caused me to be concerned about the degree to which it is wise to trust the platform.

For the moment my view remains that this loan and interest on it will be paid but I have greater reservations beyond just this one loan. Though I do think that it would be very foolish to buy this loan.

I was personally planning to invest many tens of thousands of Pounds via this platform. That is no longer my intent.

masonic

jamesd wrote: »

I have previously mentioned SavingStream as a P2P platform to consider. I withdraw any implied or actual recommendation to use this platform until it is clear why in relation to their loan PBL20:

Thanks for the heads up. I had been loosely following events, but it seems I need to bring myself up to speed on recent discussions. I have a few thousand invested in the platform, so I will be watching developments with interest.

On one of the points you mention:

3. planning permission was described as granted when it had not been and the applicant was in an apparently acrimonious discussion with planners that ultimately resulted in the application being withdrawn after it became clear that it would not be granted.

I believe there was a granted PP application for redevelopment of the garden centre, but there was also a separate PP application that was not granted for the development of a holiday park on the agricultural land. This seems to have been correctly described in the loan particulars.

The other points to raise are somewhat concerning.

Kendall80

I have a small amount invested in saving stream and am also concerned at the points raised above by James. I also find it troubling that after the loan went into default they still allowed it to be bought on the secondary market. Obviously people should check more carefully - the large red square is prominent but mistakes are easily made.

fun4everyone

jamesd wrote: »

I have greater reservations beyond just this one loan. Though I do think that it would be very foolish to buy this loan.

I was personally planning to invest many tens of thousands of Pounds via this platform. That is no longer my intent.

Yep fair enough, I got absolutely slated for suggesting SavingStream was risky beyond normal P2P sites in that other thread (I simply thought what was advertised was unsustainable). I am glad a more reputable poster than me has arrived at the same conclusion now.

FWIW I have put a lot of money across some other p2p sites that do seem to be sustainable to me.

Daz2009

fun4everyone wrote: »

Yep fair enough, I got absolutely slated for suggesting SavingStream was risky beyond normal P2P sites in that other thread (I simply thought what was advertised was unsustainable). I am glad a more reputable poster than me has arrived at the same conclusion now.

FWIW I have put a lot of money across some other p2p sites that do seem to be sustainable to me.

If borrowers are paying SS circa 18% pa and lenders are receiving 12% pa,why is that unsustainable in your eyes ?

masonic

fun4everyone wrote: »

Yep fair enough, I got absolutely slated for suggesting SavingStream was risky beyond normal P2P sites in that other thread (I simply thought what was advertised was unsustainable). I am glad a more reputable poster than me has arrived at the same conclusion now.

Unless I have completely misread jamesd's post, he hasn't arrived at your conclusion at all. There is nothing unsustainable about the rates on offer at SavingStream. The issue is around potential irregularities around the information provided about one of the loans.

But contrast that with the likes of Ratesetter who don't provide any information at all. Lending money to anonymous individuals and businesses without any security or information about the borrowers is even worse in my view - especially if the rates aren't much better than you can get risk-free in a high interest current account.

FWIW I have put a lot of money across some other p2p sites that do seem to be sustainable to me.

Which ones, just out of interest?

masonic

Daz2009 wrote: »

If borrowers are paying SS circa 18% pa and lenders are receiving 12% pa,why is that unsustainable in your eyes ?

Not to mention that the circa 18% is paid up front.

adindas

Daz2009 wrote: »

If borrowers are paying SS circa 18% pa and lenders are receiving 12% pa,why is that unsustainable in your eyes ?

What about looking into the borrowers side. if the borrowers are paying 18% how could they sustain their business. I do not think many reputable business could make 18%+ profit.

If the business is not sustainable then the loan will be defaulted and the private lender will loose their hard earning cash??

fun4everyone

masonic wrote: »

Unless I have completely misread jamesd's post, he hasn't arrived at your conclusion at all. There is nothing unsustainable about the rates on offer at SavingStream. The issue is around potential irregularities around the information provided about one of the loans.

Hey ok, I mean the overall conclusion that SavingStream is not a place to trust with your money. If I am wrong about that I really don't mean to twist other peoples words. I said at the time I felt saving stream is claiming things that are not sustainable. I therefore felt it was not wise to trust them with money.


It is funny because I just did some research, it appears SavingStream agreed with me also. Here is their landing page from March when I said what I said

https://web.archive.org/web/20160321021508/https://savingstream.co.uk/

Note it says "
Invest your funds and earn 12% interest per year with our secured peer to peer lending platform.

Grow your capital with a fixed 1% monthly return"


That is a claim you will get 12% interest at a rate of 1% fixed per month.


Now contrast with what it says today
https://savingstream.co.uk/


"
Invest your funds and earn up to 12% interest per year with our secured peer to peer lending platform.

Grow your capital with an up to 1% monthly return"


They have changed their tune big time, I am sorry but I feel I had a point before and the end conclusion is the same.

Which ones, just out of interest?

I really like funding knight. Slow to get invested but extremely trustworthy imo with proper screening of loans and appropriate return on investment.

JohnRo

I just started last month with SS, relatively small amount and staying that way. I'll be monitoring the interest rate.