Does anyone here have an ideological objection to Solar?

zeupater

Hi All

Whilst all is quiet I think that it needs to be remembered that we do tend to get a few inflamatory new profiles appearing on these threads from time-to-time, simply because it is well known that renewables is an area where opposing viewpoints exist ...

It is my personal view that, over the past few years we have had at least one individual returning again (and again!), posting under various profiles, and interestingly, posting opposing viewpoints just for effect. It is extremely likely that the individual has been posting again recently, having first established a posting history by adding short, often irrelevant, comments on other threads/boards, thus hoping to be taken more seriously than a new member joining & immediately jumping into debate .....

I believe that some longtime members have similar suspicions and are possibly already aware of the profiles which I would consider as being 'dubious', however, to others who are not, please take this possibility into account ....

There is a difference between 'trolling', debate & heated debate. We seem to currently have some 'heated' debate which is being deliberately inflamed by profiles which are contributing little apart from encouraging one position or the other, and possibly both! ... I personally would consider this to be 'trolling' for effect and would hope that many others would see it this way too ....

My advice, take care and simply consider why some posts are made ..

HTH
Z

Cardew

zeupater wrote: »

Hi All

It is extremely likely that the individual has been posting again recently,

I personally would consider this to be 'trolling' for effect and would hope that many others would see it this way too ....



HTH
Z

Not IMO 'extremely likely' but 'certain'.

I wonder 'the regulars' fall for his ploy.

Perhaps he will thank you for your post;)

Energetic_2

Cardew wrote: »

Not IMO 'extremely likely' but 'certain'.

I wonder 'the regulars' fall for his ploy.

Perhaps he will thank you for your post;)

If this indeed happening and you guys know who it is they should be reported to the mods.

It's not fair on contributors genuinely tring to help people with their time and experience that this is happening.

grahamc2003

zeupater wrote: »

Hi All

Whilst all is quiet I think that it needs to be remembered that we do tend to get a few inflamatory new profiles appearing on these threads from time-to-time, simply because it is well known that renewables is an area where opposing viewpoints exist ...

It is my personal view that, over the past few years we have had at least one individual returning again (and again!), posting under various profiles, and interestingly, posting opposing viewpoints just for effect. It is extremely likely that the individual has been posting again recently, having first established a posting history by adding short, often irrelevant, comments on other threads/boards, thus hoping to be taken more seriously than a new member joining & immediately jumping into debate .....

I believe that some longtime members have similar suspicions and are possibly already aware of the profiles which I would consider as being 'dubious', however, to others who are not, please take this possibility into account ....

There is a difference between 'trolling', debate & heated debate. We seem to currently have some 'heated' debate which is being deliberately inflamed by profiles which are contributing little apart from encouraging one position or the other, and possibly both! ... I personally would consider this to be 'trolling' for effect and would hope that many others would see it this way too ....

My advice, take care and simply consider why some posts are made ..

HTH
Z

Yes, to the more astute is pretty obvious.

I'd certainly never complain to the moderators about such cowardly behaviour of continually registering with new identities when the leopard has shown his spots yet again. I think keeping the posts illustrates the (lack of) thought processes of some individuals and since they, or he, is of the unquestioning rabid supporter, and certainly doesn't help the cause of environmentalism (or rather the 'green' subset of it) when viewed by people of average intelligence and above. Must be a pain for other rabid greens.

The poster's identity 'Ilovesolarme' disappeared after just a few days of very weak attempts to discredit posters with opposing views on some matters, with those attempts frequently thanked by others of the same ilk. It isn't very hard to work out his current (and neither his previous) identities, but I expect a few here won't manage to.

John_Pierpoint

Useful graphic from a firm that sends me their news letter after I asked for a quote about a year ago (too expensive and could not do the job in time).

Note the jump in capacity in December 2011 to beat the deadline (and again in March 2012)

Also note the change in registration date recorded since last September.

The_Green_Hornet

I only have one comment on this sorry excuse of a debate and that is I fail to understand why a thread entitled Solar professional, here to help attracts the usual handful of posters who just want to use it as a forum to criticise Solar PV.

My suggestion to everyone is, if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all.

John_Pierpoint

Yes it might be useful if "Energetic" were to update the first post on this thread explaining that the topic changed into a "debate" about the morality/utility of the subsidies and a discussion of other technologies such as hydro; So for practical advice see the replacement thread............

Energetic_2

Crikey, quiet in here. If you guys are missing all the fun have a look at this article which is pretty important in itself and then read the comments below, it may all look a bit familiar :-)

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2012/12/first-large-scale-solar-plants-without-subsidies-seen-in-spain?cmpid=rss

Martyn1981

Thanks E. Interesting to see the comments too. Funny how the roll out of viable farm PV is actually criticised for potentially depressing daytime leccy prices - I can think of worse things in life! :rotfl:

Another interesting report, but you'll have to google:-

"Re-considering the Economics of Photovoltaic Power" as it's a PDF.

Very recent and co-authored, and whilst short, does clearly explain the concept of wholesale price viability - 'busbar parity' and retail price viability - 'socket parity'.

Fig 6 shows Italy, Germany and Spain having reached socket parity already.

and contains a wonderful paragraph:

"6. Cause for optimism
Grid parity is now largely an outdated concept stemming from an industry that has traditionally been used to being an “underdog” of small scale, and constantly fighting for a “level playing field”. While the term has served some usefulness as an abstract metric for R&D programmes to strive for, it is not useful in real-world power sector decisions (Mints, 2012b). Since it does not take into account the value of solar PV to the broader electrical industry, and is often used to compare a retail technology against a wholesale price, it implicitly provides a tool for proponents of other technologies to use against PV. Of course standard concepts and practices of assessing commercial viability rely on real data in contracts, financial spreadsheets and bids, remain the norm in transactions – these should replace grid parity in public discourse as well."

The future is getting brighter, one PV panel at a time!

Mart.

Energetic_2

Thats my favourite part, not viable because makes daytime energy too cheap... Show the forces really at work in our system.

And why you have to do what you can as a consumer to protect yourself...