Does my FIL have any right to complain...?

moneybunny123

Hello everyone.

My father-in-law moved into a rental property last week, and has been nothing but disappointed since. A month ago, he and I went to view the property whilst it was still occupied by the previous tenants. The state and cleanliness left a lot to be desired, but how others choose to live is entirely their business and we assumed the place would be cleaned and tarted up between tenants.

(I used to rent a house out myself, and when tenants left, I would redecorate from top to bottom.)

Anyway, he got the keys last Monday and it doesn't look like the place has been touched. Here are a list of problems:

• The house was filthy. Amongst other things, there was mould underneath the microwave and there were dead insects in the windowsills. The inventory made by the letting agents referred to some of the dirt - even commenting that the oven should be condemned it was so dirty!
• The loft, garden and kitchen cupboards still had some of the previous tenants junk in (including a pink fleuroscent christmas tree, half eaten boxes of biscuits, etc).
• The garage is leaking in water (he's since found out that there is a blocked drain in the garden causing the water to run into the garage). But this means my FILs belongings are getting wet and possibly damaged.
• The walls and skirting boards haven't seen a fresh coat of paint in years and look grim, dirty, chipped and generally grotty. The spare bedroom still has remnants of 'princess' wall stickers across their bright, pink walls.
• The rear garden is tiered, and the top tier (only accessibly by very slippy and extremely dangerous steps) is completely overgrown and like a jungle. Does the LL have an obligation to make the garden neat and safely accessible? (I know during the tenancy it is my FILs obligation to maintain the garden).
• The wheely bins were all packed full - but didn't get emptied last week as the bin men refused to take them as the previous tenants had packed them with the 'wrong kind' of waste. Therefore, my FIL has had to empty them himself, disposing of some things himself, just so they would get emptied properly next time.

My FIL has complained every day to the Letting Agents, who have told the Landlady, but the agents rang me yesterday to tell me that the LL is growing tired of the constant complaints and is considering not renewing his tenancy at the end of the 6 months, and could I have a word with him to tell him to pipe down. They claim the LL "spent a whole day cleaning the place" prior to him moving in. All I can say is that she must have spent the day cleaning the wrong house!

My FIL isn't in the best health. He's 66, not very able or agile, but he WILL keep the place neat, tidy and in good decorative order. However, he's reluctant to do any of the decorating himself if he's going to be thrown out in 6 months! It' like a catch 22.

What rights does he have as a new tenant? I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a legal obligation to make the place spick and span, but surely she had a moral one? What about the other things? Is he within his rights to complain, or are the agents right? Does he need to shut up and get on with it?

19lottie82

moneybunny123 wrote: »

we assumed the place would be cleaned and tarted up between tenants.

this was a mistake I'm afraid, you should have had this clarified. in WRITING, before signging anything

moneybunny123 wrote: »

• The house was filthy. Amongst other things, there was mould underneath the microwave and there were dead insects in the windowsills. The inventory made by the letting agents referred to some of the dirt - even commenting that the oven should be condemned it was so dirty!

Nothing you can really do about this I'm afraid, as per above. Best thing to do would be for you and your OH to get your rubber gloves on and give it a good going over. I understand why you feel you shouldn't have to, but it doesn't look like the LL is going to do anything about it. and they don't legally have to.

moneybunny123 wrote: »

The loft, garden and kitchen cupboards still had some of the previous tenants junk in (including a pink fleuroscent christmas tree, half eaten boxes of biscuits, etc).

Other posters will tell you to WRITE to the LL regarding this, but realistically, if it was me, I'd just bin it, as long as there is nothing that they are likely to return for. OR bag it up and put it in the garage.

moneybunny123 wrote: »

The garage is leaking in water (he's since found out that there is a blocked drain in the garden causing the water to run into the garage). But this means my FILs belongings are getting wet and possibly damaged.

WRITE to the LL asking them to remedy the blocked drain asap. Don't deal with the agency, then don't have the power to authorise such repairs without the LL's permission.

moneybunny123 wrote: »

The walls and skirting boards haven't seen a fresh coat of paint in years and look grim, dirty, chipped and generally grotty. The spare bedroom still has remnants of 'princess' wall stickers across their bright, pink walls.

Again, surely you must have noticed this before your FIL signed a tenency agreement? This is only cosmetic and you have no rights here I'm afraid.

moneybunny123 wrote: »

However, he's reluctant to do any of the decorating himself if he's going to be thrown out in 6 months! It' like a catch 22.

Personally, I wouldn't bother. The state of the place, shows the Landlord has no interest in mantaining or investing in the property. Your FIL would have to spend his own money to upgrade someone elses property. My advice would be for him to sit out the 6 months then find a better place. However, if he SIMPLY must redecorate, make SURE that he has the LL's permission, in WRITING, as it may come back to bite him if he makes any changes without it. (even if you see them as improvements)

moneybunny123 wrote: »

The rear garden is tiered, and the top tier (only accessibly by very slippy and extremely dangerous steps) is completely overgrown and like a jungle. Does the LL have an obligation to make the garden neat and safely accessible? (I know during the tenancy it is my FILs obligation to maintain the garden).

Deal with this yourself in the short term to make it safe. As described in the agreement, this is your FILs responsibility.

moneybunny123 wrote: »

The wheely bins were all packed full - but didn't get emptied last week as the bin men refused to take them as the previous tenants had packed them with the 'wrong kind' of waste. Therefore, my FIL has had to empty them himself, disposing of some things himself, just so they would get emptied properly next time.

Not sure quite what you want anyone to do with this one, especially as your FIL has now dealt with it himself?

moneybunny123 wrote: »

What rights does he have as a new tenant? I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a legal obligation to make the place spick and span, but surely she had a moral one? What about the other things? Is he within his rights to complain, or are the agents right? Does he need to shut up and get on with it?

Letting Agents? Morals? Sorry but I almost spat out my tea there!

I think the mistake you made in this case was viewing the place and assuming it would spruced up and cleaned. Your FIL viewed the place and accepted it, the LL has no obligation to do it up from that point, unless specifically agreed.

As I ahve already advised, the place sounds like a nightmare. If the LL doesn't care at this point, what will ahppen when something goes really wrong?


Do the best you can to make the place liveable for your FIL for the next 6 months and start looking for somewhere else as soon as you can.

pmlindyloo

moneybunny123 wrote: »

Hello everyone.

My father-in-law moved into a rental property last week, and has been nothing but disappointed since. A month ago, he and I went to view the property whilst it was still occupied by the previous tenants. The state and cleanliness left a lot to be desired, but how others choose to live is entirely their business and we assumed the place would be cleaned and tarted up between tenants.

(I used to rent a house out myself, and when tenants left, I would redecorate from top to bottom.)

Anyway, he got the keys last Monday and it doesn't look like the place has been touched. Here are a list of problems:

• The house was filthy. Amongst other things, there was mould underneath the microwave and there were dead insects in the windowsills. The inventory made by the letting agents referred to some of the dirt - even commenting that the oven should be condemned it was so dirty! Good that's it's on the inventory. Is it still like this or has your FIL cleaned it? If you can take pictures of everything (dated is best)that would be good Choice = get it cleaned professionally and send bill to LL/LA. Clean it yourselves.
• The loft, garden and kitchen cupboards still had some of the previous tenants junk in (including a pink fleuroscent christmas tree, half eaten boxes of biscuits, etc) Throw away the food, box up the rest and take to LA - their responsibility to get in touch with previous tenant to collect it.
• The garage is leaking in water (he's since found out that there is a blocked drain in the garden causing the water to run into the garage). Write to LA (copy LL) and ask them to fix drain. LL's responsibility (check Shelter website for further info.) But this means my FILs belongings are getting wet and possibly damaged. (Contents insurance? Claim from LL?)
• The walls and skirting boards haven't seen a fresh coat of paint in years and look grim, dirty, chipped and generally grotty. The spare bedroom still has remnants of 'princess' wall stickers across their bright, pink walls. 'Fraid LL does not have to repaint - FIL took it in that condition. Make sure it is all documented on inventory, take pictures.
• The rear garden is tiered, and the top tier (only accessibly by very slippy and extremely dangerous steps) is completely overgrown and like a jungle. Does the LL have an obligation to make the garden neat and safely accessible? (I know during the tenancy it is my FILs obligation to maintain the garden). Make sure detailed on inventory and take pictures. Not sure about slippy and extremely dangerous steps - who says so?
• The wheely bins were all packed full - but didn't get emptied last week as the bin men refused to take them as the previous tenants had packed them with the 'wrong kind' of waste. Therefore, my FIL has had to empty them himself, disposing of some things himself, just so they would get emptied properly next time. Annoying but not a lot to do now.

My FIL has complained every day to the Letting Agents, who have told the Landlady, but the agents rang me yesterday to tell me that the LL is growing tired of the constant complaints and is considering not renewing his tenancy at the end of the 6 months, and could I have a word with him to tell him to pipe down. They claim the LL "spent a whole day cleaning the place" prior to him moving in. All I can say is that she must have spent the day cleaning the wrong house!

My FIL isn't in the best health. He's 66, not very able or agile, but he WILL keep the place neat, tidy and in good decorative order. However, he's reluctant to do any of the decorating himself if he's going to be thrown out in 6 months! It' like a catch 22.

What rights does he have as a new tenant? I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a legal obligation to make the place spick and span, but surely she had a moral one? What about the other things? Is he within his rights to complain, or are the agents right? Does he need to shut up and get on with it?

I am not unsympathetic but most of these issues should have been dealt with as soon as FIL moved in. The LA should have come to the property and made arrangements for the LL to pay for a cleaner.

The time seems to have passed for that. Just make sure you have the evidence of what it was like so the LL doesn't deduct money from the deposit (it is protected isn't it?)

Now you've got off on the 'wrong foot', so to speak, the drain problem which is the LL's responsibility and must be fixed has got 'lost' in the rest.

You must get things done the old fashioned way by writing a letter to the LA/LL. Send from 2 separate POs (not recorded as it can be refused) and keep receipts. This creates a paper trail.

Can't advise about the garden - suspect it may just be unsuitable for your FIL.

As you have found out in cases like this LLs pull most of the strings and can try to end the tenancy after 6 months.

To be honest it doesn't sound the most suitable of places for your FIL. I should put this down as a bad experience and move on asap - doesn't sound a very responsible LL.

Whatever, you do don't let your FIL spend any money!

Having read this back it doesn't sound at all sympathetic. I really am but am trying to be realistic in the situation.

19lottie82

Good advice from pmlindyloo, but please note that it generally isn't much use writing to the Letting Agent, they can't do anything without the Landlords consent anyway, WRITE to the Landlord directly (there should be a copy of a contact address for him / her on your FIL's lease, if not WRITE to the LA and ask for it) - you never know, there is a chance that he might not even be aware of these problems!

moneybunny123

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I am not unsympathetic but most of these issues should have been dealt with as soon as FIL moved in. .

Well, that is what we've tried to do. He literally only moved in 7 days ago, and has been on the phone to the LA ever since. Now they and the LL think he's a trouble maker when all he wants is a clean, secure and tidy new home.

pmlindyloo

moneybunny123 wrote: »

Well, that is what we've tried to do. He literally only moved in 7 days ago, and has been on the phone to the LA ever since. Now they and the LL think he's a trouble maker when all he wants is a clean, secure and tidy new home.

I do understand, honestly!

Telephoning is really not the best way to do things - you can easily be fobbed off (as you have found out)

If you really want to go the whole hog write everything down and go to the letting agents with your pictures and sit there until they contact the LL and get things sorted.

Unfortunately, there is still the possibility that the LL will be not contactable and the LA will fob you off and you will be back to square one.

You have to decide what is achievable and what isn't, how much time and energy you want to spend on this or whether you want to move on and make your FIL's life as comfortable as possible.

In an ideal world LLs like this should be .......................(put your own expletives here) but it won't happen unless the law changes.

Sorry, not to have a magic answer but we see far worse cases here where properties are almost uninhabital. Try to put it in perspective. In the end, other than the blocked drain it is just a case of donning the marigolds.

makeyourdaddyproud

Sounds like the rental price was too good to ignore, and now the FIL wants it in the condition he should have paid more £££'s for. Since you already viewed it, and in the condition described, there was no possible way all those issues could have been sorted by the time he moved in, I would say put up with it.

Werdnal

makeyourdaddyproud wrote: »

Sounds like the rental price was too good to ignore, and now the FIL wants it in the condition he should have paid more £££'s for. Since you already viewed it, and in the condition described, there was no possible way all those issues could have been sorted by the time he moved in, I would say put up with it.

Some very unhelpful assumptions here!

OP stated that the place was not great when FIL viewed it, and they naturally expected (as many would) that the departing tenants/LL would clean up before FIL moved in. Sadly not all LLs can be bothered to present their property well, or care about anything but the money at the end of the day ...

makeyourdaddyproud

I wasn't trying to be helpful, because I think there is more to it than you have told. I am guessing the FIL got the place at a price where no similar property in that area would be in a better condition. Maybe at the price point, only smaller and more decrepid properties become available. I also think the FIL engaged an Agent who is just as bad as the LL.

Werdnal

makeyourdaddyproud wrote: »

I wasn't trying to be helpful, because I think there is more to it than you have told. I am guessing the FIL got the place at a price where no similar property in that area would be in a better condition. Maybe at the price point, only smaller and more decrepid properties become available. I also think the FIL engaged an Agent who is just as bad as the LL.

But even if lower rent was the deciding factor in the FIL taking the property, it does not mean they should automatically accept dirty kitchen, rubbish being left behind and blocked drain flooding the garage!

sooz

Take things out of the garage to stop them getting wetter.
Report drain & garage problem in writing to agency.

Go over the inventory with a fine toothcomb, & add as necessary. Return a signed copy with amendments to the agency, & get them to sign his copy to say they have accepted his amendments.
Get ovenu or similar in for the oven.
Get a cheap gardener in for the garden if he can't manage it.
Clean or get cleaners in.
Enjoy the place, but don't decorate unless very cheaply & with written permission.


The good news is when he leaves he has no need to clean at all. He should leave it in exactly the state he found it, or marginally better. No effort needed at all