CAB refuse DRO.

jimmyjoker

The truth is suspicious and a white lie would IMO have been better. I went to see C.A.B and I ticked all the boxes for acceptance of a DRO.

I forgot at interview to inform the advisor about my daughters car being registered to me, so a few days later via e-mail I told them the truth. The truth is that my daughters previous o/h brought a car and registered it in his name and they later parted company. He agreed to sign over the car to me because my daughter was under a DRO with the debt he had left them in. She uses the car to take their child to school etc.

I have never been named on the insurance, owned the car or maintained it etc. She has the only 2 insurance policies to prove I am not a named driver, also it states that the car is registered by a family member. I saw things coming to a head with a debt so I told my daughter to transfer ownership to herself. This was done a week before my CAB interview which in itself I now know looks a bit suss.

And now a DRO will not be supported by CAB advisor because I have sold a veichle in the last 2 years so dont qualify for DRO.

fatbelly

A DRO intermediary cannot refuse to submit a DRO. However there are boxes for them to tick to say that they do or do not approve the application. If they don't then they are expected to give reasons. And of course this will then be looked at.

You've declared a transaction at undervalue so I can see where the Intermediary is coming from.

Is this car actually valued at more than £1000 using a recognised website?

jimmyjoker

fatbelly wrote: »

Is this car actually valued at more than £1000 using a recognised website?

Tried a few quotes but they want to charge. Off the top of my head I would guess book value to be about £2K but the engine management light is on and thats been quoted to repair at £500ish. I know a local trader so I could get an exact figure from him.

My own car is less than £1000 so no problem there.

Im getting worried about this now because my next step will probably be going BR but daughters car is causing me problems. I even thought about telling a lie and just say I sold it to her for £X.

From reading it appears I will have same problem with BR application.

Funny when the truth is more suspicious than lies but that really is the case.

fatbelly

Just so you know, the relevant question is

Have you given away any property or sold it for less than its true value in the last 2 years?

and the help box says

If the debtor has sold or given away any of their assets in the last 2 years, and in doing so received less money than the asset was worth (including Nil payments – YES should be selected.

You should be aware that any items in this section will be referred to the Official Receiver for consideration and the application may be rejected.

jimmyjoker

Thankyou for your reply Fatbelly, not that its good news but at least I know which way to go with it now. So basically, I have no alternative but to say that I sold this car for whatever its valuation is because I cant be seen to be giving away a car thats not mine to give away in the first place lol.

I presume that the proceedure would be the same for DRO or BR?.
DRO would ideally be better so shall I go back to CAB with new info ref daughters car?

Well needs must, first thing most people do when in dire straits is sell something.

caz2003uk

Can I just point something out....being the registered keeper does not make you the owner of the car!!

It even says so on the registration documents!

Would this help the OP considering in the OP she/he stated the car was registered in her name but was her daughters car?

jimmyjoker

Actual reply

"Regarding the vehicle and the effect of this situation on a DRO:

As the Official Receiver will search all records and investigate the 2 years prior to the making of the DRO as discussed, they will see from DVLA records that you were the registered keeper of the vehicle and that it was transferred to your daughter’s name just a short period prior to your application for the DRO.

This could cause problems as it may look like you have deliberately transferred an asset. On this basis you could be found guilty of an offence and this could lead to criminal and or civil sanctions. This transfer of the vehicle will have to be detailed on the application and although may not result in the immediate refusal of an application, and therefore loss of the £90 fee, it may lead to the order being revoked once they have investigated matters.

On the basis of the above, I would have to mark the application appropriately and whilst I am obliged to make the application for you if you want me to, I would have to state to the Official Receiver that I did not support the application due to the transfer.

I have provided the number for the Insolvency Service enquiry line who will be able to give you more of a view on how this may be dealt with, please call them and outline the transfer, this should help you in any decision making."

fatbelly

That's a carefully written letter. My only comment would be that it may overstate the case. I think replacing 'will' with 'may' twice in the first main paragraph would be more accurate.

The DRO Unit could investigate anything they want to but do not do so routinely. After all £90 does not buy much of their time and the process is designed to be streamlined, with the Intermediary doing the donkey work and being trusted.

They do check routinely against the Experian report but to routinely check the DVLA records would surely throw up a lot of false results and miss lots too. I'm not aware that they do that. As Caz points out, the vehicle's registered keeper is not necessarily the owner.

But in your case if they did search against DVLA records it would raise some questions and so it may be best to be open.

The Intermediary Guidance for this section says:

6.1 Have you given away any property or sold it for less than its true value in the last 2 years?

Please select „Yes‟ or „No‟ as appropriate in answer to this question. If the debtor has sold or given away any of their assets in the last 2 years, and in doing so received less money than the asset was worth (including of course nil payments), „Yes‟ should be selected.

If „Yes‟ is selected, the debtor will then need to provide the following information on the transaction:
 What was the asset that the debtor sold or gave away.
 The date when the asset was sold or given away
 The value of the asset. Please provide what the debtor considers to be the value of the asset in pounds. However, whilst this value will be taken as true and correct on application, the Official Receiver may make further enquiries into the value given. If it is found that the debtor did not provide accurate information in answer to this question, the DRO may be revoked and the debtor may face criminal and civil sanctions.
 Why the debtor sold or gave away the asset
 To whom the debtor sold or gave the asset. Please provide the full name of the person or organisation to which the asset passed.

Particular attention should be given to any items that have purchased by way of credit and subsequently gifted to friends or relatives.

If you can't get a free valuation from Parkers guide, use Wisebuyers

immoral_angeluk

Is there an issue here where the daughter has actually lied about ownership of a car in order to get a dro?

wba31

I hate to say this but I think you're missing the point of the DRO intermediaries research, the rules of the DRO etc. You now should not just lie about receiving money for the car, any intermediary worth their salt would then be asking you what you did with the money, they may ask for evidence showing it paid to you and evidence of it's subsequent expenditure.

in the first instance, your daughter should have been honest about the car in your name being hers, it would have stopped her DRO, but for you now, you could have got her case notes to show that she is accepting ownership of the car so it's not yours. For you both to have a DRO and there is an overvalue car in the middle of you is not right, one of you is eligible and one of you isnt.

For me you have signed the car into your daughter's name? can you prove that she PURCHASED the car in the first place (when the vehicle first came into ownership of the family). If so, that proves that the car isnt and never was yours, and you should be able to do a DRO with that.
HOWEVER if your daughter's DRO is still running, now the car is registered in her name she has a duty (and failure to do so can be dealt with by way of prosecution, she has signed a form stating this) to inform the Insolvency Service of the ownership of the car. It may well be that despite Parker's valuing the car over £1000, a reputable trader may say "realistically in todays market its worth £950..." get that in writing and signed by mr trader with his company headed paper, and the IS will consider that evidence when deciding whether the DRO needs to be revoked or not.
If her DRO is now finished, she has dodged a fat one.
If you bought the car in the first instance for her, then you have undersold the asset, and a DRO may be revoked if you apply. If you claim to receive monies for the sale of the vehicle to your daughter, I as an intermediary will want to know what you have done with it. You can keep £300 for yourself, but in element the rest of it should be split pro-rata between all the debts to be scheduled in the DRO. If not, then you have still disposed of an asset because the sum of money will be missing...

jimmyjoker

immoral_angeluk wrote: »

Is there an issue here where the daughter has actually lied about ownership of a car in order to get a dro?

What on earth are you talking about? I am not one bit amused or impressed by that comment, infact I would go as far to say, it could be read as an accusation but you cleverly put a "?" at the end.

First half of your username is very apt. Do you go around the site looking for immoral posts and if you cant find one then try to create one?. You need to read more carefully before asking a stupid question/accusing a member of goodness knows what.

If you had been bothered to read the first post in detail then you would have seen that my daughters partner brought the car, registered it in his name, parted company with my daughter, then eventually signed the car over to me. My daughter or her DRO is irrespective of this.

You should pay more attention and get your facts correct before going round posting those kind of comments. I have already pointed out how suspect this V5 transaction could/and does look for my DRO but its the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth however it may appear.

I am willing to draw a line under this right now, I have only come here to get the best advise possible and dont need any further aggro. Feel free to delete these posts if you feel the same.