Unfair claim against me for council tax. Any advice?

coffeemonster_3

Evening Ladies and Gents;

My issue started when i moved into a new property at the end of September 2005. I moved the house with people that i knew quite well, two of which i had lived with before without any problems.

In total there were four of us in the house. My self and person 'A' were new additions to the property. Persons B and C were already living there, and had done so for one year previously.

After approximately four weeks as I and 'A' were arranging to be added to the tenancy agreement, we discovered evidence that person 'B' was no longer paying the rent. Due to the fact that we could not force 'B' out of the property, and that 'C' had only a single standing against this shady character we left the property. Person 'A', 'C' and my self removed all of our belongings from the property, packed them into storage and arranged accommodation elsewhere. There was no outstanding rent to the property as we had already paid.

My self and person 'A' were not on any tenancy agreement, nor had we registered with the council. We lived it the property for a total of 6 weeks. Person 'C' was on the tenancy agreement, but to my knowledge this matter has since been settled.

This was the end of the issue until December 2006. I returned to England after spending most of the year working and living abroad only to discover that Brighton city council had been sending letters to my parents house demanding a sum of money (Approx £350) They had also sent a bailiff around, with a demand for the money or goods at the beginning of December. The letters were dated late November.

Naturally I was shocked about this action and contacted the council at the earliest possibility (This was on the 3rd of Jan, as i did not return to the country until the 23rd of Dec and the city council offices were closed until then)

The city council stated that a total three persons were now liable for the out standing council tax fees . Person B, was not listed on this any of the letters they have also claimed to have no record of this person.

I stated that this was impossible due to the fact that I;
A. lived at the property for only 6 weeks
B. was never registered as a tenant

In January the council encouraged me to provide substantial evidence to prove that I lived at the property for such a short period. To do so I sought out receipts from a hotel that I was staying at and forwarded this onto them. The council put all action from Rossendales on hold for 31 days, to give me enough time to forward the evidence and for them to 'investigate'. I received word back from the council in form of a letter at the beginning of march, it stated that the amount had been amended to £231.29 and that i would receive a new bill for this (to this date i have still not received that bill)

I felt victimized by this but when I approached the council once again to try to settle the matter, they stated that any further deductions would be impossible, and that i was to now contact Rossendales to arrange payment.

I feel disgusted that I am now being solely targeted, due to the fact that i contacted them confirming my presence. They do not seem to be approaching the other two people mentioned on the letter any further. Concluding that £231 was more so manageable than the original sum, I decided arrange payment

BUT: when I contacted Rossendales to do so; I was informed by an advisor that the account had actually been settled by another party and that i was now no longer liable for any money whatsoever.

This came as a shock to me, i confirmed it with the advisor multiple times requesting a letter to further confirm this. I quizzed her to who the 3rd party was, but she informed me that this information could not be released to me. I assumed that Rossendales had claimed the money back from one of the other two people who were enlisted on the council tax demand.

Shortly after this, i left the country again for approximately four weeks and during which time I forgot about the letter that was to be sent to me. I returned to work at the beginning of April, and everything seemed to be fine. No more letters, no more calls and no more demands. That was until last week, which was when a Bailiff turned up at my property with a demand for £410.29. (231.29 + Dec fee + April Van fee [£110] + levy charge] The demand only contained two names; myself and person 'C'

I couldn't believe it. I was intimidated and unsure of what to do, so I paid the full amount. The Bailiff stated that he would come back at another time with further charges or take my belongings if i did not do so.

I called up Rossendales as soon as he left. The advisor told me that even though i had been informed that it was settled, it in fact had not been. Rossendales had apparently been in proceedings against another person for the sum of money but for some reason the council decided that this person was no longer liable, and informed Rossendales once again to seek after myself or the other single listed person on the demand.

Rossendales, stated firmly that i have been sent two further letters and another 'Notice of Removal Proceedings'

All of which is utter nonsense because the last correspondence i have received from either claimant was in March. If they had tried to contact me, i would have settled the amount immediately avoiding all of these extra costs.

Whilst the Bailiff was inside the property i quizzed him for information on the other people involved as i have had no contact with them since we moved out, I believe that Rossendales may have sent these recent letters to another address in Southampton instead of the property where i am staying.

Since paying the amount I have received another letter demanding another that I pay another £110 or face 'Committal to Prison'

Calling them up immediately, I was informed that one of their advisors had charged me double for the Bailiff visit.(They actually tried to do this whilst the Bailiff was here, trying to charge double for the levy costs) And that they would look into it, and get back to me. They haven't done so, and i now have to call them again.

I consider this to be harassment, and wholly distressing to myself and my parents.

I have barely any belongings at this property as it is my parents house and most of my goods are in Poland! I am planning to leave more permanently in June, but want to take action before doing so.

I am terribly upset by this as it is causing to be incredibly stressful to my parents, who do not take too kindly to people trying to encroach on their property to remove goods. My parents are also looking after my grandmother at the property, and to have large strange men turning up at the property during the days, is as you could imagine unwelcome.

I have found the whole proceedings to be incredibly washy and hazy. Brighton council and Rossendales can never give me a straight answer or provide hard evidence to why i am solely being pursued. It also seems that either Rossendales or the council may have put a mark on my credit score, because i have been recently declined for a new bank account twice.

I understand this was a long post, but i thought best to present the case as a whole.

What can I legally do to claim something back? Has anybody else experienced something similar? Is it just me, or do Rossendales appear as if they are operating out the back of a van? Do i have any legal rights in this matter?

Thank you for the time!

CM.

chevalier

I am not really sure what the answer is, but I would suggest writing what you have just written to hear to the head of the council to complain, and copy in your mp. Might help you get a refund?

Other than that I am bumping for the morning crew
chev

wherediditallgo

Unfortunately, the council is only interested in getting the council tax , not in who pays it. As you weren't on the tenancy agreement, they have no way of knowing for sure when you moved in or when you left, & it's not in their interest to make a big effort to find out since it's your responsibility to ensure you're registered for council tax if it's not included in your rent. In addition, you being out of the country for a lot of the time meant you were unable to respond promptly to letters sent or chase up letters that were supposed to be sent. Unless there is a tenancy agreement to say otherwise, the councils often treat flat/houseshares as one household rather than individual tenancies. Normally, the council are happy with that because it saves them admin (one bill for the property, instead of issuing bills per resident) & the residents are happy because it works out cheaper. However, it also means you have joint liability. If you are not on the tenancy agreement, you are deemed to be there living as part of the household unit, even if you have no connection with the other residents apart from sharing the same communal facilities.

One of my friends has moved into nursing accommodation where the council tax is included in the rent because she nearly got stung the same way. She didn't find out until after she moved into her previous shared house that they all shared liability for the council tax as if they were part of a family unit. As one of the people was a student & worked under a certain number of hours pw, he wasn't liable for council tax. When he increased his working hours, he should have started paying it when his benefit stopped, but he refused to do so, which meant the other residents had to split it between the 3 of them instead of paying 1/4 each. When she rang the council about it they weren't interested as long as it was paid, so she was advised by a housing advice centre to move out as soon as possible & let the council know her last day in the property as soon as she found somewhere else to live. She moved, as potentially she could have ended up being the only person in the house paying it.

I think you should write to the Director of Revenues & Benefits for your council, with a copy to your MP. Put everything in chronological order, & provide copies of any receipts or bills that prove you weren't living there. A copy of any stamps in your passport showing you out of the country might also help. If you can find a local solicitor offering a free 1/2 hour of legal advice, go to see them if you get nowhere with the council. The Local Ombudsman would also be interested, but I think only after you've given the council a fair chance to respond to a written complaint. The people who were on the tenancy agreement have definite dates for the council to work with, which is why they're not going after them. Plus, by paying part of it already, from their point of view it is tantamount to admitting you owe the money, even though you were intimidated into doing so. The council aren't going to give up on getting the money unless they have to, & you need to prove to them that you shouldn't be the one to pay it. You could also put in a complaint about Rossendales giving you the incorrect information, which resulted in you thinking the matter was dealt with when it wasn't. Send the complaint to the council (copied to your MP), as they've employed Rossendales to recover the money. Good luck.

coffeemonster_3

Hey Chevalier;Wherediditallgo;

Thank you both for the words of wisdom. Since my first post the Brighton Council have sent me two more letters demanding that i pay 231.29.

They are threatening me with court action. This is becoming incredibly frustrating because, its so difficult for me to call them during the day, and they close early before i return from work.

It' now appears that even though i have payed Rossendales more than 400, they have not passed this money to the council. Why should it be my responsibility to tell them to do so?

This is all so ridiculous, and has made me angry. I will be writing letters of complaint, I just hope it gets somewhere.

I believe that i should at least be entitled to the the money for the van visit and the levy charge, because it was due to their lack of competence that i was informed incorrectly. They would have evidence of sending the letters, and if they had suddenly changed the addressee. Then surely i should be eligible for a refund if this is the case.

tomterm8

I would draft a letter to your local councilor, CCing your local MP and your local newspaper containing full details of your case, and I would take it to the CAB and ask if one of their advisors would check it over for you.

KellsBells

ts_aly2000 wrote: »

Else I may as well put my next door neighbour on my council tax bill on Monday morning. Hell, everyone who reads this may as well do it.

Great idea, what's your neighbours name?:p

plumduff-2

As an adviser this is what I would do for my clients:

1. Write to the council tax unit concerned. Put in bold across the top - CUSTOMER COMPLAINT and state everything you mention above... From what you say you wasnt liable..

2. If/when the CTU write back and say tough... you ned to do a STAGE 2 complaint, do this to the dept in the council who deal with coroporate complaints and not to the CTU...

3. If you do not get your money back complaint further to the Local Govt Ombudsman... threaten to do this to the CTU and to Corporate Complaints Team... may get them off their backsaides and make them treat your complaint seriously...

Does take time, but could be worth it to get the CTU knuckles rapped of the LGO..

jobbingmusician

Plumduff's advice sounds great. But also if you want advice from a specialist adviser (not me) PM me, as I can put you on to a good person in South London

wherediditallgo

coffeemonster wrote: »

Hey Chevalier;Wherediditallgo;

Thank you both for the words of wisdom. Since my first post the Brighton Council have sent me two more letters demanding that i pay 231.29.

They are threatening me with court action. This is becoming incredibly frustrating because, its so difficult for me to call them during the day, and they close early before i return from work.

It' now appears that even though i have payed Rossendales more than 400, they have not passed this money to the council. Why should it be my responsibility to tell them to do so?

It isn't your responsibility, & you don't have to. Do you have access to a fax machine? If so, send them a fax advising that you paid that money & when, & give them a copy of any receipt you've got proving it. Keep the fax receipt as your proof of supplying the info. Bailiffs send statements to councils at least once a month, & councils do the same if people pay them direct instead of paying the bailiff, so the council should have known about the money by now. When you write to the council, ask them to get a detailed statement of account from Rossendales, so that you can see whether all or only part of the £400 is being passed on to the council.

It does look like you've been left to carry the can by the others, either deliberately or by default, & as both the council & Rossendales know where you are they're making you their cashpoint. I know it's a pain in the rear, but you should definitely complain about the absolute mess the council & Rossendales have made of the whole situation. I got a case taken off a bailiff when they told me I owed almost £200 more than I did, & wouldn't supply a statement of account until I faxed the council pointing out I'd requested it verbally, & was now asking them as the contracting agent to get it for me.

crawley_girl

My friend had a very similar experience of Brighton & Hove City Council a few years back.

She saw someone from the Money Advice Centre (MACs) which was free and Brighton based, who took on her case. It took a long long time to get sorted, and in the meantime an attachment to earnings was bunged on to her wages.

It was finally semi resolved but she ended up paying something for council tax but not the full amount which was about 3K.

Good luck with that

plumduff-2

Dont ask fr anything further from them.. You shouldnt have paid this debt... you stayed at the property for 6 weeks... you were not on the tenancy agreement. you are not liable. the CTU are chasing you cos you have proved yourself to be the easy option...

Do the complaints... Customer complaint to CTU... Stage 2 complaint to Corporate Services and the straight to the LGO... dont mess about with them any further