PIP and motability

clifford149

Hi

my interpreation of how atos will interpret the pip rules is that if you are wheelchair bound you should get the higher rate and hence a motability care...others may get the lower rate but no car and some will get nothing?

any comments please

pstuart

And we're off!

rogerblack

It's not quite that straightforward.
To quote the hideously written descriptors.

You need 8 points for low rate, 12 for high, there is no middle rate.

Can move at least 200 metres either (i) unaided; or (ii) using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. - Score 0

Can move at least 50 metres but not more than 200 metres either (i) unaided; or (ii) using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. – Score 4

Can move up to 50 metres unaided but no further. – Score 8

Cannot move up to 50 metres without using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. - Score 10

Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. - Score 12

Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by another person or a motorised device. – Score 15

Cannot either (i) move around at all; or (ii) transfer unaided from one seated position to another adjacent seated position. Score 15

Those who can't even self-propel in a wheelchair, or can't move around at all (those say confined to bed for medical reasons), or who can't get from one seat to a nearby seat get higher rate.

Those that can't manage 50m without using a wheelchair - get higher rate.

This bit is fairly simple.
Now, it gets more complex, as the descriptors apply if you can't do the activity for some portion of most days.
So, if you can stagger 100m without much pain some time most days, without using a wheelchair or aids, you probably still qualify, if most of the time you can't.

And then it gets really complex.

Activity 1. Planning and following a journey

Can plan and follow a journey unaided. - Score 0
Needs prompting for all journeys to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. - Score 4

Cannot follow any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. - Score 10
Needs either (i) supervision, prompting or a support dog to follow a journey to a familiar destination; or (ii) a journey to a familiar destination to have been planned entirely by another person. - Score 15

These are rather harder.
Some are easy to interpret - if you've got a guide dog, you may get it on that alone.

Others somewhat less so.

Needs either (i) supervision, prompting or a support dog to follow a journey to an unfamiliar destination; or (ii) a journey to an unfamiliar destination to have been entirely planned by another person. - Score 8

Taking part 1.
It may probably be read as something like: 'To maintain safety, and avoid harm to the claimant or others, for some portion of most days they require to be continually watched over, or reminded or prompted by another person, when making a journey to an unfamiliar destination, or need the help of a dog'


So, for example, someone that could walk 75 meters, but required the help of a guide dog for unfamiliar destinations would get 4 points for mobility, and 8 points for planning, meaning a total of 12 points.

It is probably fair to say that if you have no mental, social, cognitive or sensory problems, and can walk over 50 meters, and move between adjacent chairs, you are not getting high-rate mobillity component of PIP.

(Being able to walk 50 meters in agony probably doesn't count, as I understand it, the exact rules on 'significant discomfort' have not been completed.)

benefitbaby

clifford149 wrote: »

Hi

my interpreation of how atos will interpret the pip rules is that if you are wheelchair bound you should get the higher rate and hence a motability care...others may get the lower rate but no car and some will get nothing?

any comments please

As noted in previous post PIP has 2 rates: standard and enhanced. A motability car will be available to those with an award of the enhanced mobility rate of PIP.

rogerblack

benefitbaby wrote: »

As noted in previous post PIP has 2 rates: standard and enhanced. A motability car will be available to those with an award of the enhanced mobility rate of PIP.

And the current design has the number of 'enhanced mobility' entitlements significantly below (by 25% if I recall correctly) the 'high rate mobility' threshold.

schrodie

As in Roger's post about if you cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by yourself you Score 12 points. If you have to use an electric buggy then it's 15 points. So you don't have to be confined to a wheelchair just unable to mobilise yourself 50m without the help of a wheelchair. We are told though that the final descriptors have yet to be agreed on.

I read somewhere that Motability stand to loose at least 100,000 customers when PIP is brought in! That's a hell of lot of new cars not being sold and will more than likely hit the car industry.

My guess is that the 100,000 is a very very conservative figure!

zaksmum

schrodie wrote: »

As in Roger's post about if you cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by yourself you Score 12 points. If you have to use an electric buggy then it's 15 points. So you don't have to be confined to a wheelchair just unable to mobilise yourself 50m without the help of a wheelchair. We are told though that the final descriptors have yet to be agreed on.

I read somewhere that Motability stand to loose at least 100,000 customers when PIP is brought in! That's a hell of lot of new cars not being sold and will more than likely hit the car industry.

My guess is that the 100,000 is a very very conservative figure!

I use an electric buggy anyway but I can foresee a huge rise in purchases of used ones on E Bay!

sunnyone

zaksmum wrote: »

I use an electric buggy anyway but I can foresee a huge rise in purchases of used ones on E Bay!

There are already many, many ebay crips and no doubt ATOS are already aware of the phenoma too, for my ESA change over I sent in a copy of my wheelchair therapist report prescribing a NHS powerchair to support my claim to be placed straight into the support group on the grounds of mobilisation and I was placed sraight into the support group without a face to face assessment (though I did send in other reports to support my claim including other evidence to prove I should be placed straight into the support group, not just the mobilisation criteria)

The NHS dont hand out powerchairs like smarties, I had a three part assessment which took three months (and I was in the urgent catagory) so having one proves I need one, anyone can buy aids and claim they cant do things but having the aids dosnt prove anything apart from they can use a computor (or someone did it for them) and they had the money to pay for them.

zaksmum

Can't comment on NHS policy to supply motorised scooters/wheelchairs.

Being in dire need of one I wouldn't have wanted to hang around for however long assessments would take so I prioritised and purchased one privately.

claire1234

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/pip/indexxx.php

something i came across