ESA migration rejection appeal - "diary" as evidence?

CompBunny

Hi everyone,

Usual IB to ESA migration story - rejected after medical.

I have arranged a meeting for monday with a local disability advice charity who helped me fill in the original form who are willing to help me with an appeal.

The kind lady there suggested I keep a diary from when I booked the appointment to show as evidence. I wish I'd asked more detail about what to put in as I'm not sure! Any suggestions?

I will post examples of some days in a reply, am I writing the sort of thing they need? I've been honest, but also worried that I'm just giving them ammunition to reject me again because of the things that I CAN do.

I'll delete after a few hours as its quite personal and embarrassing for people on here I talk to on other boards to see.:o

I'd appreciate your input.

Thanks xx

CompBunny

Deleted
Personal info.

CompBunny

My partner does of course have a front door key - he often forgets it. Either way, I am pretty much always technically able to do most of these things that I can't - I just know that if I DO do them, I won't have the energy to do other things. Eg go out for my walk - which is actually quite far really! I can do more on good days, eg supermarket which are also in my diary. Or in the case of brushing my hair I usually don't brush it if I can possibly get away with it as having my arms above my head is very uncomfortable and something that is extra-tiring for me. Perhaps I should mention this - that I physically CAN brush it but choose not to to conserve very limited energy 'funds' on a bad day.

I have CFS/ME - chronic fatigue syndrome. - my symptoms worsen with activity. I have to rest a lot of the time in order to be up to doing some things, often described as a pot of energy where there is only so much you can take from it. Its also quite a variable condition, I could probably complete a full day at work, maybe even two, but I'd be laid up in bed for months afterwards!

Oh dear, I don't want it to sound like I'm lying... this whole thing is so scary

Muttleythefrog

To be honest I'm not sure diaries are always particularly useful in relation to ESA.. I think they're better geared to DLA claims... from quick reading in fact your diary might be especially suited to DLA evidence. But for ESA focus on the descriptors (the statements of disability for the WCA) in appeal... and hopefully the help you are getting similarly reflects this fact. Only the descriptors count... nothing else. Diary might reveal some of the difficulties you have in relation to some of the descriptors... but to be honest many of the groups of descriptors for ESA possibly wouldn't really be evidently tested in even the most detailed of diaries. For example.. ability to go out might not be tested if diary doesn't include any attempt to go out. At face value what is tested is your ability to perform tasks. Refer to the below link for the descriptors.

So I'm a little surprised at the advice you've received although to be honest if it corroborates claimed problems regarding descriptors.. or some of them.. then it surely can't do any harm. But I'm an amateur... and others may disagree.

Supporting medical evidence can be vital too.. hopefully you are getting advice in relation to this from the charity. Medical opinion closely related to descriptors that apply to you could be invaluable. So if you feel an HCP owes you a favour..lol.. now is time to call it in in the form of their opinion of you in relation to the descriptors.

http://pseudo-living.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/esa-descriptors-and-points.html

Mara69

CompBunny wrote: »

Hiya,

Thanks for your input.

My partner does of course have a front door key - he often forgets it. Either way, I am pretty much always technically able to do most of these things that I can't - I just know that if I DO do them, I won't have the energy to do other things. Eg go out for my walk - which is actually quite far really! I can do more on good days, eg supermarket which are also in my diary. Or in the case of brushing my hair I usually don't brush it if I can possibly get away with it as having my arms above my head is very uncomfortable and something that is extra-tiring for me. Perhaps I should mention this - that I physically CAN brush it but choose not to to conserve very limited energy 'funds' on a bad day.

I have CFS/ME - chronic fatigue syndrome. - my symptoms worsen with activity. I have to rest a lot of the time in order to be up to doing some things, often described as a pot of energy where there is only so much you can take from it. Its also quite a variable condition, I could probably complete a full day at work, maybe even two, but I'd be laid up in bed for months afterwards!

Oh dear, I don't want it to sound like I'm lying... this whole thing is so scary

I did wonder whether to post what I did as I didn't want to be helping you to 'massage' your diary. You do need to be completely honest. However, I thought that if I could point out what I thought looked suspicious (for want of a better word) you could perhaps think about the circumstances around being able to do so much in a short period - did you have extra rest, for example.

My sister in law (as was) suffered with CFS/ME and I can remember how her condition varied from one day to the next. Fortunately, she had sympathetic employers.

She was cured (totally cured) by something called reverse therapy. It was quite remarkable actually. She is now off travelling the world.

princessdon

One thing that strikes me is that you must really enjoy shopping! I'd do anything to avoid it (apart from online).

I think given your condition this must be something you gain enjoyment from as you'd not put yourself through this when your oh or delivery is an option.

If this diary is your chosen way forward and you enjoy cooking/shopping/cleaning then perhaps this needs popped in.

CompBunny

Thankyou Muttley - I don't claim DLA as I don't feel that I need it...I can walk and wash myself and eat unaided etc.

Interesting to read about how a diary doesn't provide evidence for descriptors. The charity haven't really said much about medical evidence yet, just said to bring my test result letter from a private ME specialist we contacted and to ask my GP to write a letter but I need to speak to the advisor and get some clarification in this...what to ask my GP to write etc, especially as my GP does nothing to treat my condition or even much to manage it as she thinks that "some people are just tired".

Thankyou, I will read the descriptors again closely and think about how I can prove how they effect me. Its a shame that only the descriptors matter, I'm sure many disabled people, genuinely limited in their existence, don't fit into neat tick boxes.

Mara, yes I have read the book of reverse therapy. Some people do have real success with it and I'm pleased that your sister-in-law did! It didn't work for me, but I think thats because they know so little about CFS/ME that it could easily be 100s of different illnesses under one silly name - hence why different treatments seem to help different people. I'm currently under Dr Myhill. How wonderful that she is completely cured!

CompBunny

princessdon wrote: »

One thing that strikes me is that you must really enjoy shopping! I'd do anything to avoid it (apart from online).

I think given your condition this must be something you gain enjoyment from as you'd not put yourself through this when your oh or delivery is an option.

If this diary is your chosen way forward and you enjoy cooking/shopping/cleaning then perhaps this needs popped in.

Haha thankyou, yes I do quite enjoy doing the shopping! Its normality, a trip out with my OH. Cooking and cleaning aren;t much fun (although when I have some spare energy I actually enjoy trying cooking new things!) but sometimes energy has to be spent on the boring but essential things, especially when my OH does so much himself..

pmlindyloo

I wonder if this might be of help?

http://www.postviralfatigue.me.uk/forum/f8/cfs-guidelines-atos-esa-assessors-870.html

Also, the comment from a poster below says that as regards the descriptors and the completing of tasks you should be considering stating that you cannot do these tasks 'reliably, repeatedly and safely'.

Because of the nature of the illness it must be very difficult to meet many of the descriptors because, although you may be able to achieve them, the result of having achieved them is devastating to your mental and physical well being.

If this is 'you' then this is the part that you need to emphasise.

Have you had a medical with ATOS? If you have, then obviously the 'assessor' hadn't done the part of the training which gave the guidelines about this condition.

PS. I also think that your diary illustrates quite well how you can achieve certain things for a time but the energy expended on this forces you to rest for long periods of time afterwards.

mazza111

I have to admit, I take the dd out shopping and to shopping centres, usually where they have a shopmobility service, just for the sake of her not being so isolated. There are times when she gets herself ready to go and is too knackered to go.

WCA is about hitting the descriptors I'm afraid, and these are what you need to see what applies to you.

CompBunny

"Reliably and repeatedly"...no way the majority of the time for some of them. Safely...well it depends what it is. I do hope that the advisor lady knows about this, she is really kind.

I have indeed had the ATOS medical. The assessor was friendly and kind but didn't seem to take into account that the physical examination was clearly exhausting me!