Understanding ESA85

LuluJ1960

Good Afternoon.

New Member long time reader on MSE

I had an Atos Assessment recently and have just received the ESA85, and am having problems understanding it,
Nowhere on the form can I see any mention of points.

should there be a score sheet or something ?

any advice appreciated

LuluJ1960

Muttleythefrog

It should state the descriptors... in each of the 17 WRAG categories if any are found to apply. And then probably afterwards if any support group descriptors are found to apply. This page here lists the WRAG descriptors and the support group ones for easy reference... but it also includes the relevant WRAG points for descriptors. I don't know about score sheet.. I think they now tend to send one and to be honest I've never seen one.. but not sure how much use it'll be beyond the crucial document you actually have.

http://pseudo-living.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/esa-descriptors-and-points.html

Prognosis should also be given in the report.. if this states something like 'a return to work could be considered within x months' then this'll likely be used to determine reassessment timing if applicable.

broad-sword_2

You should have had form ESA65 which gives the decision reasoning, the scores and the descriptors (all the available scores). Complain otherwise as this is unacceptable. Regarding the prognosis, this really only appears if you are passed, otherwise you should be informed ESA ceases from whenever (assuming it's a fail)

broad-sword_2

PS the ESA85 score sheet (ESA85 is the medical report)would show the scores, albeit abbreviated and unreadable to the 'lay-person'

LuluJ1960

Hi Broad-Sword
Thank you so much, I will call DWP on Monday and request the
ESA65.

Also Thanks to Muttley for the link.

Lulu J

rogerblack

To quote an earlier post.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf - see this.

Now, for your medical, go through it, and find - for example - paragraphs like

"Wd Cannot either (i) mobilise more than 200 meters on level ground without stopping to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion. (ii) repeatedly mobilise 200 meters within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort of exhaustion"

Now, match this with the above descriptors.

You can see that it exactly matches descriptor 1 (walking - hence the W) part d.

This means that this is worth 6 points.
Now, add up the whole report like this.
However - score is not the sole determinant of the claim - it's only a guideline.
The decisionmaker can choose to ignore the fact that the HCP did not think you qualified for a given descriptor, and substitute their own result, for example.

The scoresheet will tell you if the conclusions differ.

melbury

I'd like to know why the ATOS assessor always puts that with the proper treatment the outlook is that my OH will be fit for work in 3-6 months - we have provided letters from consultants saying there is nothing further they can do and he will not get better:mad:

Are these people complete idiots?

Would it be really out of order if at the next medical assessment if I just jumped in and said to the bloke (it is always the same one, obviously some failed eastern european doctor):

"Let's just cut to the chase and not waste yet more time. If you intend to write exactly the same thing again, I am just going to request an immediate reconsideration and complain. So why do you always just ignore what is written on the form (which has taken ages to do) and the consultants letters?"

I am convinced there is some truth in that they put you through this all the time to simply stress you out and hope that you won't bother:(

rogerblack

melbury wrote: »

I'd like to know why the ATOS assessor always puts that with the proper treatment the outlook is that my OH will be fit for work in 3-6 months - we have provided letters from consultants saying there is nothing further they can do and he will not get better:mad:

Are these people complete idiots?(

The prognosis date is not a 'fit for work' date.

It's a date at which there is a reasonable prospect of the condition having changed.
This can be caused by the person adapting to their condition in some cases (for example, learning how to use an aid), conditions which fluctuate, ...
If the report is factually inaccurate - and they know it is and put in an improper prognosis intentionally, when none of these things is likely, complain both to ATOS, and the HCP's governing body.
(for example, the nursing and midwifery council).

The fact that your doctor says that you will never be 'well' does not mean that you may at some future date correctly fail to meed the descriptors.
(In some cases, of course, it may.)

melbury

rogerblack wrote: »

The prognosis date is not a 'fit for work' date.

It's a date at which there is a reasonable prospect of the condition having changed.
This can be caused by the person adapting to their condition in some cases (for example, learning how to use an aid), conditions which fluctuate, ...
If the report is factually inaccurate - and they know it is and put in an improper prognosis intentionally, when none of these things is likely, complain both to ATOS, and the HCP's governing body.
(for example, the nursing and midwifery council).

The fact that your doctor says that you will never be 'well' does not mean that you may at some future date correctly fail to meed the descriptors.
(In some cases, of course, it may.)

Thanks, but I still hate em.....

To be honest at the age my OH is and with the problems he has, nobody would employ him anyway.

rogerblack

melbury wrote: »

nobody would employ him anyway.

ESA specifically does _NOT_ take this into account.