Tenant v Permitted Occupant

Annisele

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Is Landlordzone incorrect? Fine if it is, just need to know.
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/notice_to_quit.htm

I think that page is correct, but that the page and tbs are talking about two different things.

The Landlordzone page is about what happens "where the tenancy has become a Statutory Periodic Tenancy". I think tbs is talking about exercising break clauses while still in a fixed term - i.e. before an SPT has arisen.

Edit: the LLZ page also says that Ts are committed to stay for the full fixed term, but goes on to say that can be changed by agreement. I think all of that is true (when both parties agree to put a break clause in the contract, they've agreed that T might be able to leave before the end of the fixed term), but the LLZ page is light on detail for that part of things.

tbs624

Annisele wrote: »

I think tbs is talking about exercising break clauses while still in a fixed term - i.e. before an SPT has arisen.
.

Sorry, if my post created confusion - it was in effect responses to two things

The point about the break clause was in response to the assertion that notice from a T should only be of one month's duration - if the OP doesn't mention whether they are still within a Fixed Term and possibly exercising a mutual break clause then that should be clarified first.

The bit about the tenancy period/rental period *was* in relation to notice under an SPT.


Fire Fox- on the difference between rental period and tenancy period:

The rental period is determined by the frequency of the rent payments, so monthly payment obviously = a monthly "rent period" which would run from one rent due date to day before the next

The rent due date does not however always align with the day after expiry of the Fixed Term. It may be, for example, that the rent due date is the 1st of the month, but that the tenancy began on the 16th of the month. (Rental period thus running from 1st to end of the calendar month)

The Fixed Term of the tenancy would however end on the 15th of the month & the tenancy period of the subsequent SPT would accordingly run from the 16th of one month to the 15th of the next (where rent is paid monthly). LL must therefore have received T's notice before the 16th of one month to be able to leave by the 15th of the next, rather than by the 1st to be able to leave at the end of the calendar month

For notice that is to be given under an SPT it is the tenancy period dates that are relevant (although sometimes this does align with the rental period)

LL and T may of course *agree* to different dates

tbs624

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Is Landlordzone incorrect? Fine if it is, just need to know.
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/notice_to_quit.htm

IMO the contents of the page could do with some tidying up (plus use of a spellchecker - intension?)

The paragraph:

A periodic tenancy automatically follows the fixed-term if the parties do nothing (i.e. they do not sign another agreement) and the tenancy will be on the same basis as the original agreement, with all the same clauses and conditions being operative.
(my highlighting/underlining)

ought to flag up that not "all" the same clauses and conditions are operative under an SPT - it's all except those on "determination", ie how and when the tenancy may be brought to an end by either party, which is the very topic of that page

I disagree with the assertion on LLZ's page that:

• It must bring the tenancy to an end at the end of a full rent period.

The notice period must end at the end of a tenancy payment period: for example, if the rent payment date is on the 20th of each month, the notice period must end on the 20th of the month or the 19th to be on the safe side.

and

Where the tenancy has become a periodic one the notice given must expire on the last day of a rent period. For example, if a monthly periodic tenancy rent day is the 20th of the month, the two month notice period must end on the 19th of the month in question.

as already mentioned, the rent due date does not always coincide with the SPT's tenancy period.


IMO the page should also have more information about the fact that mere service of a S21 notice of intention to repossess does not bring the tenancy to an end - listing it under an NTQ heading and leaving out the requirement for a court order is , IMO, likely to create confusion.

Bringing a tenancy or a license to an end ( termination of the tenancy or licence ) requires that certain procedures are followed, depending upon the type of tenancy, for the action to be fully legal:

• The serving of a notice to quit by either landlord or tenant (or licensee)
• The serving of a notice of intension (sic) to seek possession by the landlord

LLZ don't always get things right any more than we all do on here . If people are going to use specific pages as a source of info, it is always helpful to flag that up in the post

And, of course, any T ( or indeed LL) who has queries about their notice requirements should seek their own confirmation of what they read on here (see Artful's fine signature)

Mr_Pitiful

tbs624 wrote: »

IMO the contents of the page could do with some tidying up (plus use of a spellchecker - intension?)

The paragraph:

A periodic tenancy automatically follows the fixed-term if the parties do nothing (i.e. they do not sign another agreement) and the tenancy will be on the same basis as the original agreement, with all the same clauses and conditions being operative.
(my highlighting/underlining)

ought to flag up that not "all" the same clauses and conditions are operative under an SPT - it's all except those on "determination", ie how and when the tenancy may be brought to an end by either party, which is the very topic of that page

Add rent review clauses to that, as they don't apply when a stat periodic tenancy arises.

G_M

Returning to your options

LittleMax wrote: »

...
My understanding is;

Pro - joint and several liability

Con - son may bring tenancy to an end and parents may want to stay on so I would have to draw up a new tenancy agreement with them.
Not during the fixed term. Nor at the end of the FT. Only once it has become Periodic could son bring it to an end

If we are on Statutory Periodic would I then have to offer a new 6 months Assured Shorthold at that stage?
If son ended the tenancy at this point you could offer the parents whatever you and they agree:
* a new Fixed Term, of any length (1, 3, 6, 12, 24 months, whatever)
* with or without a break clause
* or indeed a Contractual Periodic Tenancy

- tenants have paid for credit check that was not necessarily required and may demand a refund if he is not going to be a tenant

Any other pros and cons?

I can see little advantage in Permitted Occupier and many advantages in joint tenants.