Estate executor house sale advice needed

Ames

Hi all,

I've posted on here before about my mum's house. She died in April 2011, the estate is pretty much wholly made up of the house. The beneficiaries are me and my sister (note: not my dad), and I'm executor.

My dad and sister did a load of work to it (uneccessary to my mind). They put a kitchen in (which needs finishing) redecorated and recarpeted throughout on the advice of EA's.

It went on the market in August. There was one viewing within a fortnight. The feedback was positive, she wanted to buy but had to wait for her house to sell. She was concerned about the kitchen not being finished and that the garage needs re-roofing, which is work dad says he'll do.

We haven't heard anything from Reeds Rains since then.

In September we were taken to court by the mortgage company. We tried (through the solicitor I appointed to deal with the estate) to make an offer, but they ignored us and took us all the way to court. They got a suspended possession order on the condition that we pay the arrears (I paid 1/3, dad paid 2/3) and the contractual amount going forward (I pay 2/3, dad pays 1/3 reluctantly as it's supposed to be sister's share but she hasn't stumped up any cash yet). So far the bill for the mortgage company's legal bills is 3k, but they keep adding loads every week so who knows how much it'll end up.

In February the council tax exemptions come to an end and the estate will have to find £1500 a year for that. I'm on means tested benefits and I'm already overstretched with the mortgage, I can't find another £150 a month. I understand that the council can't do much about it in terms of forcing me to pay, but it's a pile of stress I don't need.

My dad and sister chose the EA - they went for the ones who gave the highest valuation. Even though when dad tried to sell his house they were rubbish.

So, I need a bit of advice. How long should I leave it before lowering the asking prce? It's up at 170k in the Scarborough area for a 3 bed semi. I think it's high based on it being a low income area, dad and sister think it's a steal at that price.

Should the EA be doing more to sell it? AFAIK they sent out a mailshot early on, put it in the local paper, and on the main websites, and have a prominent picture in their window. Should they have been in touch over the last couple of months?

If we give up and change EAs (I'd have preferred a mid range valuation from a local firm) will it look desperate?

Also, my dad and sister insist that houses only ever sell between April and June, and refuse to even think about lowering the price until July, when we've had it for sale over those months. I really think that's a bit too long, but I don't really know much about it all.

Finally, am I right in thinking that prices are still falling? I really don't want to have to wait ages and lower it, but it still be too high because of the market getting worse. I'd rather lower it now and get rid before it ends up even more of a burden than it already is.

Any advice would be good.

Also, I should say that I have bipolar disorder and I'm really scared of confrontation with my family over it, but the worry about paying all the bills on the house is rising.

Sorry for the long post.

G_M

I'm afraid responsibility for this mess falls on you.

and I'm executor.

So why

My dad and sister did a load of work to it (uneccessary to my mind).

My dad and sister chose the EA

If we give up and change EAs ....

"we"?

YOU are the Executer, so YOU are legally responsible and all decisions are YOURS.

It seems simple to me. The property needs to be sold ASAP. In whatever condition. Sell it.

Reduce the price to reflect the current market (yes, prices have fallen) and to reflect its condition.

Reduce properly and it will sell.

edit:
Or is the problem negative equity? In that case, let the mortgage lender repossess. You are not responsible for any debts the Estate cannot pay. OK, you will not inherit, but if negative equity IS the problem then the truth is that there is nothing in the Estate to inherit.

Fire_Fox

It's sounds like the beneficiaries are paying out for a lot of things that the estate should be covering or should not be being paid until much further down the line? Have you had any legal advice (chargeable to the estate)? I am concerned you have legal rights and responsibilities that remain with you for life and you are being bullied into making decisions that are not within your remit as an executor. The estate needs to be covering its debts before it 'invests' in decor.

Prices are rising in some parts of the country/ market but static or falling in others, there is no blanket answer to that. Have you researched land registry sold prices for the street and area for the last eighteen months or so? Could I suggest you simply stop answering any questions asked by your father and sister and stop involving them in decisions that are yours alone to make? Just don't tell them anything, plan non committal stock responses ahead of time and repeat repeat repeat. They can't choose or decide anything if they don't know what the options are!

((hugs))

googler

A number of posters in your other thread have already advised you to reduce the price to sell it already, so why are you asking again how long you should wait before reducing it...?

From the other thread - your sister has the contract with the EA? How can that be, if you're the executor? She's a beneficiary, but the estate hasn't been distributed yet, so she doesn't have the authority to sell it, surely?

Ames

OK, I'll try and explain things a bit better. I've been emotionally abused by my family all my life. My sister once pretended she'd slit her wrists to get money out of me, and only a couple of weeks ago threatened suicide if we didn't do what she said.

I've had a really rough time with my mental health lately and spent five weeks in summer going to the intensive crisis unit at the psych hospital every day. I just cannot handle a confrontation with them right now.

And if I did confront them, I'd have no-one. I found myself babbling to my GP today about my hobbies, just because it was the first conversation I'd had in almost two weeks. I know my family abuse me, I know I need to cut them out, I know I need to stand up for myself. But it's just not an option right now.

G_M wrote: »

I'm afraid responsibility for this mess falls on you.

So why


"we"?

YOU are the Executer, so YOU are legally responsible and all decisions are YOURS.

It seems simple to me. The property needs to be sold ASAP. In whatever condition. Sell it.

Reduce the price to reflect the current market (yes, prices have fallen) and to reflect its condition.

Reduce properly and it will sell.

edit:
Or is the problem negative equity? In that case, let the mortgage lender repossess. You are not responsible for any debts the Estate cannot pay. OK, you will not inherit, but if negative equity IS the problem then the truth is that there is nothing in the Estate to inherit.

There's loads of equity - the mortgage is about 30k, 33k now with the legal fees.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

It's sounds like the beneficiaries are paying out for a lot of things that the estate should be covering or should not be being paid until much further down the line? Have you had any legal advice (chargeable to the estate)? I am concerned you have legal rights and responsibilities that remain with you for life and you are being bullied into making decisions that are not within your remit as an executor. The estate needs to be covering its debts before it 'invests' in decor.

Prices are rising in some parts of the country/ market but static or falling in others, there is no blanket answer to that. Have you researched land registry sold prices for the street and area for the last eighteen months or so? Could I suggest you simply stop answering any questions asked by your father and sister and stop involving them in decisions that are yours alone to make? Just don't tell them anything, plan non committal stock responses ahead of time and repeat repeat repeat. They can't choose or decide anything if they don't know what the options are!

((hugs))

The beneficiaries (read: me, as sister so far isn't paying anything) have to pay the mortgage, otherwise it would be repossessed. It would be nice if the estate could cover it, but it can't so it falls to me with a bit of help from dad.

I do have a solicitor, but she hasn't had much to say about the house, other than trying to negotiate with the mortgage company when they took us to court (they just ignored all her correspondence), and telling us that we had to get it up for sale asap.

I see your point about just not telling them, and I know it's the rational thiing to do, but see above.

googler wrote: »

A number of posters in your other thread have already advised you to reduce the price to sell it already, so why are you asking again how long you should wait before reducing it...?

From the other thread - your sister has the contract with the EA? How can that be, if you're the executor? She's a beneficiary, but the estate hasn't been distributed yet, so she doesn't have the authority to sell it, surely?

I'm asking again because I was advised on the other thread to ask over here.

As I said, we had to get it on the market asap before going to court. Sister was in Scarborough, I wasn't. I thought my solicitor would be involved in putting it up for sale, but she just turned round and said 'it has to go for sale today'. So sister got to choose the EA, signed the contract, and then I wrote to the EA giving my permission for sister to be the one to sign it.

I spoke to my sister tonight, saying that we wouldn't get the 25% reduction, that it's pay it all or 50% if we take the furniture out. She's agreed to think about reducing the asking price after Christmas, although she says there's a bump in January where houses sell better. So she's open to the idea of reducing it at the end of Jan/early Feb.

She says that house prices are rising though, which is another reason I posted here. If I can say 'house prices are falling by x, I can prove it with a report from so and so, so we might as well reduce it by x' then I might have a chance of getting through to her.

Her and my dad have very fixed ideas about selling a house. Like, it wont sell if it's unfurnished. If buyers realise no-one's living there they'll take us for a ride. If we reduce by anything, we'll look desperate and they'll take us for a ride. Hell, they spent thousands on new carpets because 'Phil on TV says a house will never ever sell if it has floral carpets'.

Oh, and of course there's the one about even if we got a sale tomorrow, it'd be next summer at the earliest before we complete as the buyer will have to sell their house...

And as I'm the 'crazy' one with no 'real life' experience, they wont listen to me. Last time I tried to do something with regards the estate without their agreement (engage a solicitor) my sister threatened to go to court to have me removed as executor due to my clear mental incompetence, which I was admitting by engaging a solicitor when any idiot can wind up an estate. This was while they were happily trying to get me to sail close to the wind with regards the law, if not break it completely.

Fire_Fox

Ames honey I am aware of your mental health issues, but honestly if you cannot do this without it messing your head up and your family is going to manipulate you, you would be better not being an executor at all and let the solicitor do it all. That more reflects on your sister and father than you, to my mind. This is a legal responsibility that remains with you for life, if you get it wrong there could be massive financial implications for you even years down the line. We don't in any way mean to be unkind, but rather to impress upon you how important it is this is done 'by the book'. What you are asking us to give advice on (when to reduce the asking price) is basically your legal responsibilities which is outside our remit.

Who paid for the kitchen, decor and carpets? Can you let the house instead of sell? That would mean some money was coming in for mortgage and the council tax would be paid. I don't know if you can do that as executor, something to look into? Landlording is not an easy road - there is reams of legislation to comply with - but people here can help with that.

Ames

I've just realised I've been using the wrong terminology, I'm administrator not executor as there was no will.

My dad paid for the kitchen decor and carpets.

I can't let the house as it would be counted as income and my benefits would be cut, but the income would just go on the bills. So it's a lot of work just to end up in the same situation I'm in now.

I thought the solicitor would deal with all this stuff, but on my other thread (in the benefits board) I was advised that it's silly paying to ask her about everything and I should make decisions on my own.

I didn't realise that my questions were outside the remit of this board. I'd run anything I do past the solicitor, she's making sure everything's by the book. And people on the other thread suggested that I'm failing in my duty by not reducing the price, as the estate needs to be wound up as soon as possible. Mums other creditors aren't going to hang around forever before being paid, and more court action against me would really land me in the cak.

So it seems like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

xylophone

In reality the only answer is to sell the house as quickly as possible?
Have you considered the auction route?
You are the administrator so it is up to you to make the necessary decisions.

G_M

Why on EARTH did you agree to be Administrator when you clearly

a) do not understand what it involves, what your responsibilities are, how to go about it
b) are in no mental state to deal with it (not a critism - statement of fact from your posts

Be that as it may, you DID agree, so you are responsible. You cannot

sister got to choose the EA, signed the contract, and then I wrote to the EA giving my permission for sister to be the one to sign it

.
This is a contract between you and EA.

As for 'sister says this' and 'dad says that'. Sorry. It is all cr*p!

Reduce the price. Today. Sell the bloody property. It is YOUR responsibility, your decision. You need to wrap this up and distribute the Estate.

So go down to the EA (or ring them) this afternoon and knock a load off the asking price and tell them to re-market it urgently for a quick sale as the mortgagepayments are adding up.

As for

I spoke to my sister tonight, saying that we wouldn't get the 25% reduction, that it's pay it all or 50% if we take the furniture out. She's agreed to think about reducing the asking price after Christmas,

I have no idea what "we wouldn't get the 25% reduction" means. YOU set the price. Not your sister. Not the EA. Not your dad.

You.

Do it!

Fire_Fox

Ames wrote: »

I've just realised I've been using the wrong terminology, I'm administrator not executor as there was no will.

My dad paid for the kitchen decor and carpets.

I can't let the house as it would be counted as income and my benefits would be cut, but the income would just go on the bills. So it's a lot of work just to end up in the same situation I'm in now.

I thought the solicitor would deal with all this stuff, but on my other thread (in the benefits board) I was advised that it's silly paying to ask her about everything and I should make decisions on my own.

I didn't realise that my questions were outside the remit of this board. I'd run anything I do past the solicitor, she's making sure everything's by the book. And people on the other thread suggested that I'm failing in my duty by not reducing the price, as the estate needs to be wound up as soon as possible. Mums other creditors aren't going to hang around forever before being paid, and more court action against me would really land me in the cak.

So it seems like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

If you were able to let the house - not saying you can or you cannot but if - the ESTATE would get the income and the ESTATE would use it to pay the mortgage. It would not affect your benefits because it would not be your money. Don't you have an administrators/ executors bank account?

Honey you need legal advice on ALL the rights and obligations of an administrator, then to adhere to this. What is wise for someone with good mental health with a supportive family and what is wise for someone with less stable mental health and a manipulative family are not necessarily one and the same.

Ames

G_M wrote: »

Why on EARTH did you agree to be Administrator when you clearly

a) do not understand what it involves, what your responsibilities are, how to go about it
b) are in no mental state to deal with it (not a critism - statement of fact from your posts

Be that as it may, you DID agree, so you are responsible. You cannot
.
This is a contract between you and EA.

As for 'sister says this' and 'dad says that'. Sorry. It is all cr*p!

Reduce the price. Today. Sell the bloody property. It is YOUR responsibility, your decision. You need to wrap this up and distribute the Estate.

So go down to the EA (or ring them) this afternoon and knock a load off the asking price and tell them to re-market it urgently for a quick sale as the mortgagepayments are adding up.

As for
I have no idea what "we wouldn't get the 25% reduction" means. YOU set the price. Not your sister. Not the EA. Not your dad.

You.

Do it!

I had no choice about being administrator - I don't work (due to my mental health problems) therefore I had the time to do it. No-one else would. And given the way my sister acted, I wouldn't trust her to do it.

I have got an understanding of how it all works. The problems with my sister and dad are arising because they don't. They went mad when I insisted on advertising in the Gazette and local paper for creditors to come forward, and sister saw nothing wrong in putting mums car in her name the weekend after she died and driving it for the last two years. She now thinks that because she paid for tax and servicing during that time I shouldn't get a share of it.

I appointed a solicitor to deal with it all to make sure that it's all above board.

Dad unfortunately now does have a say, because he's paying the mortgage. Sister and I are supposed to be paying him back half each every month, but sister hasn't been able to pay anything and as I said that I could pay half up to £150, I've ended up paying that much, which is about 2/3 of the mortgage. Dad also lent us 2.5k for the arrears (I paid the other grand). And he paid for all the new carpets and crap, so if he demands his money back because he doesn't agree with me lowering the price, I'm in trouble as I can't pay it. Also, the kitchen isn't finished, and if I upset him and he walks away from it then I'd have to find a tradesman to do it, which would cost more than a few months mortgage payments anyway.

The 25% reduction was the single occupancy on the council tax. If there's no occupancy, it doesn't apply so the choice is pay the full amount, or take the furniture out and there's a 50% reduction. So I don't get to set that price, the council do.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

If you were able to let the house - not saying you can or you cannot but if - the ESTATE would get the income and the ESTATE would use it to pay the mortgage. It would not affect your benefits because it would not be your money. Don't you have an administrators/ executors bank account?

Honey you need legal advice on ALL the rights and obligations of an administrator, then to adhere to this. What is wise for someone with good mental health with a supportive family and what is wise for someone with less stable mental health and a manipulative family are not necessarily one and the same.

I don't have an administrators bank account. Due to my spending problems I didn't think it was a good idea. So the solicitor is dealing with collecting and distributing monies.

I agree with the point about legal advice, which is why I'm going to ask the solicitor in my next letter about it all. I just wanted advice on the mechanics of selling a house, what the EA should be doing, what house prices generally are doing, and the effect of things like not having furniture in, lowering the price, and changing EAs.

Someone mentioned auction. One of the EAs who valued the house suggested a fixed bid auction, but the others all said that was a really bad idea.

One thing I am looking into, which was advised by the housing specialist who represented us at court, is changing the mortgage to interest only, but there's some legal wriggling to do first, I can't remember exactly what right now and I don't have the letter to hand. I asked my solicitor about it a couple of weeks ago but haven't heard anything back, but I'm not sure I was clear enough.

So I'm going to write to her this week with copies of the latest letter from the mortgage company saying that the legal fees have doubled, the letter from the housing specialist, and ask her again about the CT position. Then leave it all up to her.

I just don't want my dad and sister screaming at me in tandem that I'm doing things wrong (like the advertising). If I can say 'actually, houses do sell year round' or 'people wont be put off by it being unfurnished' and know that I'm right, then it would make things easier.