Considering bankruptcy, where do i turn?

centralpark

Dear All

I think this is my 3rd or 4th thread since joining the site. All have been asking for help and advice on my debts and my situation isnt improving.
I am therefore considering bankruptcy.
However there are a number of things concerning me about such a step:
1.) I am on a joint mortgage with my ex husband. The house is about 10-12k in neg equity but I am worried about the effect this will have on him - we are not on good terms and he would be mortified if he knew what a mess I am in.
2.) I have completed a SoA using my partners income and out JOINT total expenditure inc debts because I am hardly earning. I am self employed and struggling to get anything. My work is so inconsistent it seemed silly to try and put it in. Some weeks I earn 0, in a good week I will earn 100.
3.) My mother is paying my mortgage for me to at least ensure I have a roof over my head (it bounced a few times) - would a bankruptcy have any effect on her? How would the OR see this?
4.)The house - I think we are close to the wire for the 3yr rule, could i lose it if its value goes up? I'm on a repayment mortgage so its coming down by about 3-4k a yr as well.
5.) my partner has had a house repossed in the past and also owes about 15k on a loan he took out when he lost his job to cover his mortgage repayments. I wondered if he should go bankrupt as well? fresh start for both? But what would happen to his income and what would the OR think to the fact that he has been running from these debts for years? i.e he isnt paying towards them, just ignores any letters. We dont hear anything re the repossession and i think it was over 12 yrs ago.
6.) clearly if i can keep the house then this is the best option but i do not want to stay living where i am. would i be tied to living in it (if allowed to keep it) forever more or could i rent it to cover mortgage after discharge and move away?
7.) i have ummed and ahhed about this for about 3yrs now. its not a decision i will take lightly but i am now pregnant and just cant see this situation improving - its not that there will be another mouth to feed, more that no one in their right mind will employ me because of it. Also I am due in may and as far as i understand it would be at least six months before i could consider returning to work full time - if i go bankrupt early next year i would have done most of the yr before discharge before i could think about working - seems sensible to tally the two?
8.) my partner is paying everything and wants to just cover essentials and keep some money back for christmas (he has 2 sons) - im worried how that would look to the OR? its not my money its his but if we're a couple.....?
9.) finally and most importantly, i have researched on the net and spoken to cccs before but i do not feel confident entering into this without professional assistance because it isnt just me it affects. I have made an appointment with a local insolvency practitioner but i felt they rather brushed my concerns aside - ive read horror stories about people entering into bankruptcy and it all going horribly wrong, I cant cope with that. I'm not eating or sleeping worrying about myself, I dont need to be worrying about what my actions are doing to others...
Does anyone know how much a professional co would charge to take me through from start to finish?


i think thats all my questions!
sorry and thanks...
SoA next..

centralpark

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet
Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household.........
Number of cars owned.................... 1
Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 0
Partners monthly income after tax....... 1218.75
Benefits................................ 0
Other income............................ 472
Total monthly income.................... 1690.75
Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 472
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 0
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 120
Electricity............................. 80
Gas..................................... 80
Oil..................................... 25
Water rates............................. 100
Telephone (land line)................... 0
Mobile phone............................ 54
TV Licence.............................. 13
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 8
Groceries etc. ......................... 280
Clothing................................ 20
Petrol/diesel........................... 160
Road tax................................ 21
Car Insurance........................... 59
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 20
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 250
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 24
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 16
Buildings insurance..................... 18
Contents insurance...................... 17
Life assurance ......................... 7
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0
Haircuts................................ 2
Entertainment........................... 80
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 100
Total monthly expenses.................. 2026

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 115000
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 500
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 115500

Secured & HP Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Mortgage...................... 127000...(472)......1.6
Total secured & HP debts...... 127000....-.........-
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
argos..........................1100......1.........0
barclaycard....................900.......1.........0
capital one....................300.......1.........0
National ins M.................600.......0.........0
national ins G.................70........20........0
Housing benefit overp..........425.......0.........0
Accountant 2...................300.......0.........0
Accountant 1...................400.......50........0
Orange.........................588.......1.........0
BT.............................190.......1.........0
westcot........................2000......1.........0
santander overdraft............580.......1.........0
MBNA...........................4000......1.........0
HSBC overdraft.................2000......1.........0
HSBC credit card...............2600......1.........0
Total unsecured debts..........16053.....80........-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 1,690.75
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 2,026
Available for debt repayments........... -335.25
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 80
Amount short for making debt repayments. -415.25
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 115,500
Total HP & Secured debt................. -127,000
Total Unsecured debt.................... -16,053
Net Assets.............................. -27,553
Created using the SOA calculator at www.stoozing.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.

IF

Hi centralpark and Welcome to the Bankruptcy (BR) Board. I'm sure others will answer your questions but your first step is to make a list of all your creditors, debts and assets. Secondly and most important is contact one of the following debt charities. Please try these they don't charge and are impartial. They will go through all your options with you and if they suggest bankruptcy then come back to this board and we will help you all we can. Also if your not ‘clicking’ with one of the Debt charities do try another. We advise you to try at least two others for your own piece of mind. Your BR could be refused if you have not sought advice. We can't and shouldn't advise you what to do, this is to safeguard us, you and the forum.

* Blue text on this forum usually signifies hyperlinks, click on the blue links below *

Main recommended sources of help:

• National Debtline - Website: National Debtline Telephone: 0808 808 4000
• Citizens Advice Bureau - Website: Citizens Advice or visit your local CAB centre (find nearest)
• StepChange (formerly CCCS) - Website: StepChange Telephone: 0800 138 1111

Others:

• Business Debtline
  - Website: Business Debtline Telephone: 0800 197 6026
• Christians Against Poverty
• PayPlan
• TaxAid - Help with tax debts.

Please don’t do anything rash take your time and weigh up your options and read everything you can.

We often ask you to post your SOA so we can see if you have included what you need to:-
MSE SOA Calculator - Click here
Select the MSE format at the end. Copy and paste onto your thread.

For ‘essential’ BR info the ‘Look here first’ sticky by Fermi.

BR friendly home insurance thread.

BR Friendly Bank Accounts ~ [Updated Sep 2012 re: Co-op Cashminder withdrawal]

BR Abbreviations

Beth's Guide Reasons for your BR

Charities who help with BR Fees

Bankruptcy NDL Guide

Basic Bankruptcy Advice & Guide NED CAB

If you are new/old to this board and receive/see a comment that is not helpful or insensitive please don’t let it put you off posting, often these comments are made by people who don’t normally contribute to this board and don’t speak for us.

What to do if you get an insensitive or hurtful comment.

And do remember we’ve all been through this and anything you don’t understand don’t be afraid to ask.


Best wishes
IF...x

centralpark

oops i remembered one other thing...
i was looking at an example application and SoA online and in the very long document you have to submit (SoA?) there was a section asking if you are named on a will - I would imagine I am - what do i need to do? Thats my mother - and, god forbid, she isnt in the best of health so i need to know what the implications are. also i would be named on my ex's life ins policy.
thanks

tiggerbodhi

centralpark wrote: »

1.) I am on a joint mortgage with my ex husband. The house is about 10-12k in neg equity but I am worried about the effect this will have on him - we are not on good terms and he would be mortified if he knew what a mess I am in. The problem is no matter what unless you get a new mortgage and "buy him out" the link will still always be there, you are paying the mortgage and getting it down by £3k-£4k per year, if you sell or it gets repo'd he gets half of any equity or half any negative equity, for me BR was the time to sever ties to an ex once and for all, if your not on good terms do you care if he is mortified?
3.) My mother is paying my mortgage for me to at least ensure I have a roof over my head (it bounced a few times) - would a bankruptcy have any effect on her? How would the OR see this? the OR will see that your mother has been gifting money to you, if she wants it back she will be added to the list of creditor, the OR will only get a bit narked if you pay your mum back in front of going BR or in front of other creditors.
4.)The house - I think we are close to the wire for the 3yr rule, could i lose it if its value goes up? I'm on a repayment mortgage so its coming down by about 3-4k a yr as well. In theory you could, but the assessing at three years would need to release enough equity from your half (your ex has half) less fees, you can purchse the beneficial interest from the OR, as you say close to the wire, with house prices stagnant in reality will it come to that.
9.) finally and most importantly, i have researched on the net and spoken to cccs before but i do not feel confident entering into this without professional assistance because it isnt just me it affects. I have made an appointment with a local insolvency practitioner but i felt they rather brushed my concerns aside - ive read horror stories about people entering into bankruptcy and it all going horribly wrong, I cant cope with that. I'm not eating or sleeping worrying about myself, I dont need to be worrying about what my actions are doing to others...
Does anyone know how much a professional co would charge to take me through from start to finish? sorry do not know of anyone, most people I know that have gone BR have done it themselves with the help of CCCS and/or the CAB


i think thats all my questions!
sorry and thanks...
SoA next..

Welcome and good luck with whatever you decide, have commented on the ones I know about as for the rest someone will know and be along soon! BR is a fresh start and it really does feel that once you do it, there is an end to it all.

PippaGirl_2

centralpark wrote: »

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet
Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household.........
Number of cars owned.................... 1
Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 0 You need to quote an average over 6 months, so £50?
Partners monthly income after tax....... 1218.75
Benefits................................ 0
Other income............................ 472 You'd need to break this down as to what the income was.
Total monthly income.................... 1690.75
Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 472
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 0
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 120
Electricity............................. 80
Gas..................................... 80
Oil..................................... 25
Water rates............................. 100
Telephone (land line)................... 0
Mobile phone............................ 54 You should only quote your own mobile as it's nor a household expense - this amount is too high.
TV Licence.............................. 13
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 8
Groceries etc. ......................... 280
Clothing................................ 20
Petrol/diesel........................... 160 who uses the car, is this just your cost?
Road tax................................ 21
Car Insurance........................... 59 that;s high
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 20
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 250 You've not said you have children in your SOA, who are these for? If it's for your partners children, they should not be included here as this is your SOA.
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 24 Too high for one person
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 16
Buildings insurance..................... 18
Contents insurance...................... 17
Life assurance ......................... 7
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0 Need to put something here £10?
Haircuts................................ 2 Need £10?
Entertainment........................... 80 Way too high unfortunately, even £10 is sometimes not allowed.
Holiday................................. 0 £15?
Emergency fund.......................... 100 £10-£20 is usually allowed.
Total monthly expenses.................. 2026

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 115000
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 500
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 115500

Secured & HP Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Mortgage...................... 127000...(472)......1.6
Total secured & HP debts...... 127000....-.........-
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
argos..........................1100......1.........0
barclaycard....................900.......1.........0
capital one....................300.......1.........0
National ins M.................600.......0.........0
national ins G.................70........20........0
Housing benefit overp..........425.......0.........0
Accountant 2...................300.......0.........0
Accountant 1...................400.......50........0
Orange.........................588.......1.........0
BT.............................190.......1.........0
westcot........................2000......1.........0
santander overdraft............580.......1.........0
MBNA...........................4000......1.........0
HSBC overdraft.................2000......1.........0
HSBC credit card...............2600......1.........0
Total unsecured debts..........16053.....80........-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 1,690.75
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 2,026
Available for debt repayments........... -335.25
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 80
Amount short for making debt repayments. -415.25
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 115,500
Total HP & Secured debt................. -127,000
Total Unsecured debt.................... -16,053
Net Assets.............................. -27,553
Created using the SOA calculator at www.stoozing.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.

Hope that helps.

PippaGirl_2

2) Your SOA should only be for the person going BR. You will need to say YOUR income and then list the total household expenses (mortgage/rant + utilities) plus your own personal expenses (mobile, haircuts etc) then quote what your partner pays towards the household expenses. If your income isn't enough to pay 50% of the household expenses you are unlikely to be asked to pay an IPA.

6) Your mortgage is unlikely to allow you to rent it out, most don't. In any event you would need your lenders written permission to do so and they take into account how much equity is in the property in case tenants damage it, so this may be unlikely in your case with no equity. Also, unless you remove your ex from the deeds, if you do pay into this property for decades bringing it into a good positive equity, he can claim into that despite it being paid only by you. So really he needs to be removed somehow for your protection if you want to keep the property.

8) If you income is as low as your SOA suggests then really he is supporting you. His income is not taken into account if you are going BR as long as he is paying a minimum 50% of the household expenses.

9) Please don't pay anyone to help you when you can find help if you need it for free. CAB will help you for nothing, they helped me. We'll also help you here.

PippaGirl_2

Just noticed the housing benefit arrears, depending on how they were accrued, they may not be included in the BR and may need paying back.

centralpark

thanks for all the help already! i filled out the SoA for me AND my pasrtner - he may go bankrupt as well as he owes about 75k. the 472 income is what my mum pays mortgage but she doesnt pay it to me she pays it directly to the mortgage co
i just spoke to a company and they said i do not need to tell my ex if i go BR and that i do not need to mention that my mum is paying mortgage - this seems dishonest?!
i will phone cccs tomorrow and go through it all again with them - i felt a bit jittery because
1. i spoke to them recently when the water board applied for a ccj - they said if i filled out the paperwork it would all be fine and i wouldnt get one - or thats what i assumed/was led to believe. so i filled out with my repayment offer and i still got a ccj even though they accepted.
2. the budget you go through with them - i dont think the figures are realistic - i cant change my car insurance, i cant do my grocery/household shopping for the amount they recommend. i dont spend money on haircuts or holidays, or have emergency funds, but i do have pets which sometimes incur vet bills. i wouldnt say i spend anything exceptional or out of the ordinary and if im doing this i want to be honest. i feel like a naughty school girl with a guilty conscience as it is and if my figures are fictional i will feel even more so. yes i have pets and yes i allocated 20 a week towards entertainment to try and cover the odd take away or whatever. i allocated money towards clothing when in fact we never buy any - but im pregnant so maybe i will need to.
i dont know i just dont feel comfortable if im not being completely upfront and honest....
TBH i dont think BR will help with our day to day finances or lack thereof, but at least it means the debts will be wiped and this situation doesnt just yawn on and on into the future - thats why im thinking about it.

PippaGirl_2

central park, your SOA needs to be for you as individuals. So on yours you do as I said above, (Your SOA should only be for the person going BR. You will need to say YOUR income and then list the total household expenses mortgage/rant + utilities plus your own personal expenses mobile, haircuts etc then quote what your partner pays towards the household expenses.)

and then he would do his own SOA with his income, the total household expenses, his expenses and your contribution to the household expenses. So I am advising you on yours. Each person goes BR indivually and not jointly and so all SOA's are individual only.

PippaGirl_2

If your Mum pays the mortgage directly don't put that money down as income on your SOA. I would mention it however to your OR in writing.

The watercompanies are very good at writing off arrears, starting a new account and you start again with a clean slate.

Budgets, yes I agree, there is no way I could live on what stepchange (CCCS) say foodwise. Put down what you currently spend on groceries not what their budget says.
Do put down amounts for haircuts, holidays as you are allowed them which will help towards the cost of other things that you need that might not be allowed officially.

Given what you say, if you go BR it is unlikely you would get an IPA at all. However if your partner did, he may get one which he might like to think about when considering whether to.