Guardian article - the squeezed middle class?

iclaudius_2

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BobQ

Generali wrote: »

I suspect that you've never had your world taken away from you.

Try losing your job and the majority of your income and see how you get on. It nearly wrecked me which is why I have some sympathy for this woman, I am also empathetic towards her.

I thought that it was only the 'Posh Boys' that couldn't feel empathy. Didn't you post something to that effect a couple of days ago? I think you did. Turns out the class warriors aren't empathetic too.

Fair point to make but a lot of this depends how you interpret the case study presented.

I do have sympathy with someone who loses their job but I regarded this story as just another example of someone who (if you forgive the pun ) has failed to smell the coffee. Large mortgage, withdrew equity to maintain the lifestyle, still using credit to fund expensive things that their dwindling income cannot sustain. And now they are buying expensive coffee when they are living close to their credit limit.

Had she not had the money to pay the bus fare and was describing how they had had to tighten their belts due to falling income and could not afford to pay for private dance lessons and was spending the CB on something other than her lattes I would have had a lot more sympathy.

lostinrates

BobQ wrote: »

Fair point to make but a lot of this depends how you interpret the case study presented.

I do have sympathy with someone who loses their job but I regarded this story as just another example of someone who (if you forgive the pun ) has failed to smell the coffee. Large mortgage, withdrew equity to maintain the lifestyle, still using credit to fund expensive things that their dwindling income cannot sustain. And now they are buying expensive coffee when they are living close to their credit limit.

Had she not had the money to pay the bus fare and was describing how they had had to tighten their belts due to falling income and could not afford to pay for private dance lessons and was spending the CB on something other than her lattes I would have had a lot more sympathy.

I feel much like generali. My parents made huge financial sacrifices when I was a child for the trappings of 'middle class' family life...the extra curriculars in particular. I am sure I w ould do the same.

I suspect a lot of people are squeezed while providing this sort of 'unecessary nicety', enough that more job losses will probably ensue. They might not be jobs and businesses all see as necessary...but aren't a lot of jobs?

if it were not 'middle class niceties' would it be more acceptable? I guess people's priorities are different and to some that is abhorant.

My only hackle rising moment was the rush to assure her child didn't think they were poor...as if it were 'not nice' but on reflexion decided it was both intended as reassuring and true. Poor is not struggling for the niceties, it's struggling for the basics. As it was about the squeezed middle it seems fairly accurate that it's not actually about the squeezed poor.

Tancred

iclaudius wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/nov/16/what-thinking-squeezed-middle-class

Did anyone else read this and wish to vomit? Nice to have the confidence to write in and share such humbling truths (if in fact it is a real person) but the tone of entitlement and serious lack of 'this is a mess we made and we're going to sort it out-ness' just makes me sad.

The truth is that the 'yummy mummies' who are used to handouts from the state while hubbie picks up his £100k+ salary in the City need to wake up to reality. The middle class is squeezed, but those who are living outside their means in order to keep up with Jones's need to wake up to some home truths. Nobody forces you to extend your mortgage to the maximum in order to buy that 4 bed detached in a good school catchment area or get a loan to buy that 4X4 you need for the school run, shopping, etc. The real problem is that in our mega-materialistic society everyone puts undue value on things instead of on human beings. Much of this is due to the decline of traditional Christina morality, but even an atheist would admit that basic humanist values are being undermined by this obsession with wanting more and more. We need to stop loving things and love each other more.

nearlyrich

The journalists getting their partners to pay for dinner were kind of missing the point, you can only spend it once and high earners are not imune to feeling they can have more that they can afford. Picking what you splash out on and puting a few quid away for a rainy day seems to have gone out the window, I would rather have a nest egg in case of redundancy than any number of lattes from Costa or wherever. Also the idea of taking the equity and squandering it on holidays and other none essentials is crazy, a mortgage free home gives you money to spend on things you want as well as things you need.

iclaudius_2

Sadly, nearly rich, your sensible measures abovc are no longer normal.

Money Advice website would do better to delete its pages of rubbish and just print several key facts.

BobQ

lostinrates wrote: »

I feel much like generali. My parents made huge financial sacrifices when I was a child for the trappings of 'middle class' family life...the extra curriculars in particular. I am sure I w ould do the same.

I suspect a lot of people are squeezed while providing this sort of 'unecessary nicety', enough that more job losses will probably ensue. They might not be jobs and businesses all see as necessary...but aren't a lot of jobs?

if it were not 'middle class niceties' would it be more acceptable? I guess people's priorities are different and to some that is abhorant.

My only hackle rising moment was the rush to assure her child didn't think they were poor...as if it were 'not nice' but on reflexion decided it was both intended as reassuring and true. Poor is not struggling for the niceties, it's struggling for the basics. As it was about the squeezed middle it seems fairly accurate that it's not actually about the squeezed poor.

I take your point but its not really about maintaining the trappings of being middle class.

There is nothing wrong with parents of whatever means doing their best to give their children extra curriculars within limits. My parents were fairly poor and they did their best for me too. But fundamentally, parents need to provide their children with a safe and stable environment and teach their children good values. Risking your home for treats and encouraging your children to think that life is about doing what your richer friends can afford is not really helping them in the long term.

lostinrates

BobQ wrote: »

I take your point but its not really about maintaining the trappings of being middle class.

There is nothing wrong with parents of whatever means doing their best to give their children extra curriculars within limits. My parents were fairly poor and they did their best for me too. But fundamentally, parents need to provide their children with a safe and stable environment and teach their children good values. Risking your home for treats and encouraging your children to think that life is about doing what your richer friends can afford is not really helping them in the long term.

I agree, but I think it's easier to say about others than put in practise oneself. I think the lack of sympathy shown for people in different circumstances, with different priorities is something I would want to avoid demonstrating to my family were I a parent. Along side understanding why the reasoning is flawed, understanding the human element behind it seems a fairly helpful value for people.

Even 'good values' are not the perogative of those outside the middle classes.

ruggedtoast

Worrying about other people being better off than you is the quickest way to insanity there is I reckon. Just look at hpc.co.uk.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

iclaudius wrote: »

Here's my favourite latest article in the Evening Standard - January Austerity Challenge.

These fools are either super self conscious about their lifestyles or else just pathetic.

There is such a gulf between middle class London lifestyles and those having a proper daily 'austerity challenge', i.e. working poor trying to make it on London living wage or less:mad::mad:

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/the-great-january-austerity-challenge-how-did-our-writers-get-on-8474659.html

"I spent only around £20 a week on desk food, saving roughly £40." £60 a week on guzzling snacks at work? No wonder this country is broke and fat.

I always find it fascinating what people consider necessities and luxuries. My main expense is rent on a nice flat in a nice area, apart from that I live fairly frugally. I have friends who earn more, but spend more, and recently I was the only one who was able to stump up the deposit for a group holiday.

My mum loves a charity shop bargain and my dad always takes a packed lunch to work. A lot of my friends find these habits strange however.

I would class myself as lower middle class (I know the names for different types of fancy Italian pasta, but secretly prefer tinned spaghetti hoops on toast). I always thought being sensible with money was a defining middle class feature; having savings rather than the latest gadget.