?Cooker wiring

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Please excuse the fact this sounds like a major moan up.





I live in a 2 year old house.

I suspect the builders were from Messrs Bodgitt N. Leggett, going by the upside down doors, condensation on the inside of the double glazing, water leaks, the electric shower going pop, the electricity supply never being registered, the gas boiler being located too close to the worktop and suchlike, but my greatest concern is the wiring.



Six weeks after I moved in, the fuse blew for the oven that they installed. I lost the downstairs lights, the oven, everything except the hob and extractor, which are both connected to conventional 3 pin plug sockets (with very old plugs, presumably taken from something else, but let's not be too picky).

The builders refused to look at it even though it was within the defects period and I went through all manner of trouble getting the oven manufacturer to look at it without the purchase details from the builder. Only for the final result to be that the builders had used the wrong power supply cable and pinched it underneath the oven housing, so it had melted through. So there was nothing wrong with the oven whatsoever, it was the faulty wiring that was the problem.


When he looked at it, the oven repair guy took pity on me and replaced the cable with one he said was safer, particularly as the connection to the mains was more of a push-the-bare-wires-in-the-general-direction, rather than properly wired at the wall switch or the back of the oven - oh, and whilst he was there, he pointed out that they'd confused the neutral and earth and switched them around. He said the only reason I hadn't had the full household current running through my hand as I opened the oven door was a combination of my habit of turning the oven off before I opened it and the wire melting through to create the short. _pale_



The person at the Housing Association really didn't understand once I said 'oven', as that meant it was my problem, as it was 'gifted to me'. So I gave up after trying five times to explain the wiring issue - and hoped replacing the wire and connecting it properly was all it needed.


Anyhow, it's about 18 months later and it has started tripping out again when it's switched on. It's going to be taken out tomorrow to see if the wire has melted again from being in close proximity to the back of the oven. The connection is directly behind the back of the oven and I would estimate there's about a centimetre clearance when the oven is pushed in. Assuming the cable doesn't move as you push the oven into its housing, that is. If it has, then it's been touching the back of the metal oven casing all the time - there is nowhere else to run it.




However, it isn't just tripping out itself. It's tripping out the downstairs lights when it goes, which suggests to me that they've actually wired the cooker into the light circuit or vice versa. And, as far as I am concerned, if they've been installed (and approved) by someone who cannot tell the difference between black and green/yellow, they need to be urgently checked throughout the house.



Can anybody here give me hints on how to explain to the disinterested call centre operative on the Housing Association repairs line that the electrics need to be properly checked?


This is the same staff that swore until they were blue in the face that the water leak on the next door neighbour's property wasn't on the property and everybody who phoned to tell them it was on the property was imagining it. It took two months to convince them (via a director) that the actual problem was a plastic pipe had popped out its connection as it entered the house (probably due to never being put on properly in the first place). In that time, the entire street was flooded and thousands of gallons were lost. But as the builders never put in a meter for either property, running both houses off the single supply that went to the original building on the site, nobody had to pay for the water wasted.

I don't hold out much hope that they will understand what I am saying to them - but what should I be saying, if not to them, to the director when I meet the expected 'it's your oven, we gave it to you, you deal with it'?


And are there particular rules, regulations regarding the type of cabling, how it should be wired, clearances and the like?


It really needs to be an absolute idiot's guide to what I should say, as I know anything electrical is the HA's sole responsibility - I'm not allowed to do anything more sophisticated than change a lightbulb, according to the tenancy conditions - but the problem is making myself understood that this is important and why it is important.


Thanks if anyone can help me.

shegirl

Surely if it was fitted by them then they are responsible for any wiring faults?

If they're being awkward or not understanding,I would be tempted to just phone whoever it is you need to phone and tell them the electrics keep tripping -sockets and lights.You can identify the source of the problem and get them to send a sparky round.Once the sparky is there explain it to him (he's more likely to understand) and let him do his investigations and see what he says and whether he'll tell them the hole lot needs checking.

I wouldn't have thought they'd have wired the cooker in with the light circuit though.I think sometimes it can trip everything -including lights.

The other thing to consider is,as it's been 18 months,it may actually be a problem with the oven itself that is causing the electric to trip.

I had a problem in my previous house when I moved in.Someone clearly used a naff sparky.The electric tripped every time the cooker went on (that seemed to be the problem).After god knows how long in decent sparkies investigating it (definitely no problems with my cooker!!!) they discovered a couple of sockets with earth touching neutral:eek::rotfl: A couple of years back (must be 3 now) I had a new bathroom and the guy who was doing the plastering and tiling discovered the old wires to the electric shower (that hadn't been there for a few years) was still very much connected and on!!!!!!!!!!!Just hanging in the wall fgs:rotfl: I'm glad he noticed lol

Gorie

Hello

I’m sorry to hear about your ‘adventures’ it sounds like a nightmare.

It does sound like faulty electrics (based on your past experiences and findings when you last removed the oven). If you oven was working an easy way to determine which circuit it was on would be to turn the lights off at your fuse box (one bright and sunny day) and see if the oven still turned on. If it turned on then it’s not on your lighting circuit.

What you do next depends on whether you own the house, or rent.

I am not an electrician, so read my opinions below with that in mind.

As your house is new it should have a circuit board with an RCD (residual current device), lights do not have to be on an RCD circuit – whereas sockets do (I would google it but essentially an RCD is a safety device to prevent electrocution). I was also under the impression that the oven was supposed to be on its own circuit with a thick, chunky cable (capable of handling the higher power demand) so I would check this.

Regardless of above all recent electrical work and that in new houses needs to be certified by a registered electrician who installs and tests the installation. This is regulated by the electrical safety council (http://www.esc.org.uk).

If you rent the house – then your landlord has an obligation to ensure that it is safe and things and you should pursue them.

If you own I would write letters to the association explaining your problem and send them recorded delivery (if you have to pay for anything later this can help you claim the money back) also ask for the electrical safety certificate (or equivalent) for your house and see who installed the electrics. Explain that the wiring to your oven was found to be faulty and that your oven is not the fault.

If you get absolutely no help from the association I would email and write (sending recorded delivery) a further letter to the association asking them to send out someone to address your problem. Send two letters (recorded) / emails and take names of people you speak too.

Still no joy then call out your own registered electrician and find out actually what is going on. I would do this ASAP if you are concerned it may be dangerous. Although you would have to pay for any immediate repairs you would receive a receipt and written evidence of any faults / deviations from regulations.

You could then send any reports of sub-standard work to ESC (who can investigate the electrician) and the association asking for a refund for immediate repairs and for them to undertake full repairs.

If the association don’t pay and the problem was one due to faulty workmanship during the building of the house you could then potentially take them to small claims court to claim back repair costs and expenses. Although a last resort it is quite an easy and inexpensive process and usually prompts people into action.

Hopefully a politely written letter explaining the problems you have found previously with the wiring should prompt them into acting. I realise the above is a lot of work and small claims court is only a last resort but you do have some power – its just at the end of a heap of red tape and effort!

Good luck and I hope you resolve it all soon – keep us posted.

Ectophile

If it's an RCD tripping, then it may take out several circuits at the same time. This doesn't mean that the cooker is actually wired to the lighting circuit.

Common practice these days is to install consumer units with two RCDs, and split the various circuits between them. If one RCD trips, half the circuits in the house go off and half stay on. If it's wired to the 18th Edition of the "Wiring Regulations", then the chances are that ALL the circuits are RCD protected - including the lights.

This doesn't actually help with the oven install. The only answer I can see is to somehow re-route the cabling so that the connection isn't directly behind the oven. And make sure it's wired in heat-resistant cable. This is the sort of thing that requires a proper competent electrician.

southcoastrgi

just tell them every time you use the cooker you get electrocuted & if my wife dies i will be sueing you for manslaughter as it's been caused by faulty wiring, not quite the truth but i bet the sparkie is there the next day

shegirl

southcoastrgi wrote: »

just tell them every time you use the cooker you get electrocuted & if my wife dies i will be sueing you for manslaughter as it's been caused by faulty wiring, not quite the truth but i bet the sparkie is there the next day

I bet he would be,men do love lesbians after all

southcoastrgi

shegirl wrote: »

I bet he would be,men do love lesbians after all

sorry didn't realise the OP was female, but yes you aren't wrong

shegirl

southcoastrgi wrote: »

sorry didn't realise the OP was female, but yes you aren't wrong

There you go Jojo,that's the way to get the sparky out to sort it -fail proof plan:D

southcoastrgi

very true SG but i better pop along as well just to make sure the gas is safe, you can't be too careful lol

Justicia

A couple of corrections, to prevent JoJo undermining her position with incorrect information;

Gorie wrote: »

Regardless of above all recent electrical work and that in new houses needs to be certified by a registered electrician who installs and tests the installation. This is regulated by the electrical safety council (http://www.esc.org.uk).

The Electrical Safety Council are a charity, they do not regulate anything - they offer advice and guidance on electrical safety. You might be thinking of the Competent Person schemes, which include Napit, Elecsa and the NICEIC (who are ultimately the ESC).

Ectophile wrote: »

If it's wired to the 18th Edition of the "Wiring Regulations", then the chances are that ALL the circuits are RCD protected - including the lights.

We are only now up to the first amendment of the 17th edition of the Wiring regulations, BS 7671. You must be from the future... or the IET! :P

In addition, even though it may be wired to the current version, that's still not to say that the lights will be RCD-protected. Depends on factors, including what depth the cables are in the wall or if they are provided with protection against penetration. Many lighting circuits remain 'unprotected.'

baldelectrician

Correct me if I am wrong but;

• The Housing Association (HA) have supplied an oven to you
• They are liable for this oven as they have supplied it (even at no cost- not charging does not absolve their liability)
• An approved (by the oven manufacturer) repair man has fixed potentially dangerous wiring
• The same repair man showed concerns regarding the quality and safety of the electrics
• You have informed the HA of these concerns of the electrical safety
• The HA have failed to take appropriate action

The RCD tripping the lights at the time the oven fails may mean that the consumer unit is a dual RCD type with the oven and lights on the same side

I would ask the HA for a copy of the Electrical Installation Certificate for your house (you are entitled to this as you are 'relevant')
I would suggest you write to them and ask them to treat this as a formal complaint, and ask them for a copy of their complaints procedure.
Also ask which trade body they are registered with as they may have a complaints resolution procedure