BA Law or LLB

Bryando

I am thinking of either doing the LLB or a BA in law. Can't make my mind up. I have no real interest to become a lawyer as feel that field is flooded with applicants.

Does it really matter if I was only to do three years thus coming out with a ordinaray degree (Scotland). My reservation is I often see jobs looking for at least a 2.2. An ordinaray degree is just a pass. Would I be in a bad position for jobs therefore?

Stressing out on what to do for the best. Any guidance be great:)

gleek1

Hey
I have an LLB and am not a lawyer. I am also in Scotland by the way. I realised in my third year that there were really only a few areas I would be interested in working in and I wasn't willing to apply for a traineeship in other fields. I think that this really told me that I didn't want to be a lawyer really and I have no regrets about my decision.

I would say that there is time to decide on the honors question later - though jobs do require an honors degree and the job situation can be dire for even those with 2:2 - requirements are mostly for an honors degree and usually a 2:1

The BA/LLB question is more pressing if you are applying this year. With the LLB, so much of it is so technical and there is no real choice within the first 2/3 years because it is a professional qualification - if you hate parts of it - like I did - I don't think you will perform well and do yourself justice - like I did. The BA (and I hope this give no offence to anyone here) is thought by some oas a second best degree - like you didn't have the grades to do law so did the BA in Law - and in fact, it can be perceived as being less than say a BA in another unrelated subject. There will probably be more choice within the BA, however you would have to convert and do the 2 year LLB if you change your mind and decide you love it and want to be a lawyer after all.

An LLB is a good degree to have in certain fields, but I have found that many employers just want any degree, In my opinion it is only a good degree if you are genuinely interested and you do well in it. I am glad I did it, but to be honest I didn't think about doing it till I got my exam results at school and realised I would have a very safe unconditional offer - maybe not the best reasons to do it, but I didn't know what else I wanted to do.

I reckon there would also be no harm in starting the LLB - I am sure you can always transfer at the end of first year if you don't like it. If you get to pick an option in your first year, maybe don't pick a legal one, maybe pick something else you would be interested in to see how you find it at university lever. I did French one year and Forensic Medicine the second year. Another friend did Geography and I know people who did economics too.

Hope this is useful

skateykatey

I agree with the above. I've got a BA in Law (2.2) and although I've got a decent job there is no doubt it was an easy degree and is seen as such in certain fields!

The LLB is a cut above but it does require some hard graft.

I did forensic medicine as part of my BA and it was really interesting so I would recommend that too .

quinechinoise

Bryando wrote: »

Does it really matter if I was only to do three years thus coming out with a ordinaray degree (Scotland). My reservation is I often see jobs looking for at least a 2.2. An ordinaray degree is just a pass. Would I be in a bad position for jobs therefore?

I have an ordinary LLB. You won't be able to apply for any graduate jobs on the milkround (go anyway and hoover up all the food and freebies). However, I don't think you'll be disadvantaged in applying for "normal" jobs in the real world. The only thing I'd say, knowing that you have no interest in practicing law, is perhaps consider the 2 year LLB instead of the regular LLB? If you have no intention of applying for honours, you can easily rack up enough credits to graduate in 2 years. Third year is meant to be junior honours year and it's a real drag if you've already got enough credits. So long as you pass the core (law) subjects, you can rack up extra credits with any courses that take your fancy (a lot of the 1st year "arts" courses are really easy - you can skip the lectures and still pass). Forensics is fascinating and worth studying but it's only an optional law subject, not one of the core ones. Pity they stopped letting us examine the real cadavers - photo slides are a poor substitute. Finally, work experience counts for more than anything else - get some work in during the holidays and you'll be one up over your peers. After you've been working at a "proper" job for a year or two, no one will care what degree you had - any more than they care what Highers you got.

Bryando

Thanks for the replys. The main reason of doing a degree is to get away from national miniuim wage jobs. Law is something I have been interested in and read a lot of it and keep updated on things such as the cadder case.

I just feel the market for potential lawyers is flooded to the max and don't rely fancy joining that pool.

I could do the BA with the honours year and if I decided go onto the 2 year LLB. An option but would need to pay the 2 years myself, could be a problem

Does the grading of first class etc come from the honours year or from the whole course?

My biggest worry is how my mental health will be impacted on doing the degree. Stress is something that makes me very ill and one of the reasons I thought being a lawyer is a bad move.

I'm in my late 20s and feel I need to get my degree sooner or later. Go a lot to think of!

skateykatey

I should add that my BA is with Honours; any degree without an honour is, imo, not worth the paper it's written on.

The LLB was about 5k when I looked into it (about 10 years ago). Goodness knows how much it is now.

A degree is not the be all and end all though. There are plenty of people in my place of employment without one and doing pretty well; I'm still paying off my student loan from mine!

you are right in that the market is flooded and anything less than a 2.1 is pretty much worthless if you're wanting a contract. It's pretty cut throat too and I'm just not that competitive, hence the reason for not pursuing it,

gleek1

Personally, from what you are saying, I think you should bite the bullet and go for the LLB here are the reasons why:

You have an interest. You are reading up on cases - you are already a step ahead of most freshers in a law degree!

You are a bit older. I felt too young when I started. I had no interest in politics or the way the world worked. I didn't understand much about government, which made public law a nightmare - judicial review? I was lost!!! Knowing what I know now, and having lived in the world a bit longer, I would have got WAY more out of my LLB if I did it now.

It gives the the option of going straight to the diploma without having to convert to the 2 year LLB before hand. As far as I am aware, there is no option to graduate in 2 years with the 2 year LLB as an undergraduate. The 2 year LLB is a postgraduate qualification only. Doing the BA would add on 3 years before starting your traineeship.

I don't think you should worry too much about the job market in 5 years time. You don't know what is going to happen. Law trainees are still taken on each year - there is nothing to suggest that you would not be successful and able to get a job. There are also tons of different kinds of firms with different levels of stress. You could also work for a company as a lawyer, not necessarily in a traditional law firm, or you could work for a small practice. If you like the law then there will be an option for you - I just didn't really like several areas of law too much!!

What I think is vital, and where I disagree with some of the other responders is that your degree classification is ESSENTIAL. 10 years on, I still get asked for it, and I have an MSc and several years of work under my belt. You will find that in this market not having a 2:1 will make it really hard to get your applications read. Have a look, loads of jobs say 2:1 or above or a 'good honours' degree. Yes, it is possible to get work with a 2:2, but it is much much more difficult and you have to be prepared to think laterally. Remember that graduates these days are 10 a penny and whilst a law degree is great - many employers just look at the classification first. They will THEN weedle down to the subject, but you need that 2:1 to be in the pile.

Definitely get work experience over the holidays - but remember that most people also do this too ...!!!

If I remember rightly, you do the core subjects in 1st, 2nd and some in 3rd year. If you are doing an honours degree you then pick a couple of honours subjects to also do in 3rd year. In your 4th year it is just honours subjects unless you have done a year abroad or need to make up credits/compulsory subjects. In your 1st and 2nd year you can do electives - either non-core or law subjects or external clasess. I didn't have the option to do more core subjects as we had to do them in certain years, but maybe you could.... though I think it would be a lot of pressure.

Your classification comes from your 3rd and 4th years. Some unis it is just 4th year, some it is both.

Hope this is of some help. I don't often reply to threads on MSE, but I felt I had to answer yours. Any more questions then just ask.

CrazyAngel_3

I knoe you dont want to be a lawyer, but have you thought about doing ILEX instead? Im currently doing the level 6 fast track diploma, and you can chose thew units you study to get enough credits to be awarded the Diploma (or other ILEX qualification you want to work towards).

Its also much much cheaper, and you can do all the study online so you can do it on evenings and weekends. That way you can still get a recognised qualification in law, work full time, study the areas of law you want and may even become a legal exec without really too much effort...

gleek1

Should also say that if you are Scottish and going to a Scottish uni then you wont be paying fees for your UG. The diploma will cost but that is way down the line and who knows what will happen.....

quinechinoise

gleek1 wrote: »

As far as I am aware, there is no option to graduate in 2 years with the 2 year LLB as an undergraduate. The 2 year LLB is a postgraduate qualification only.

As the OP is Aberdonian, my reply was based on my knowledge of AU - other universities may be different. The 2 year LLB is normally for graduates but the content is exactly the same as the 3 year ordinary LLB - the short course folk simply don't do any extra subjects beyond the minimum core law subjects. You can apply to the senate for special permission, to get around the usual restrictions. There is also nothing to prevent the OP from doing as many optional extra courses as they can manage, each semester. So, if you sign up for the undergrad law course, you could do all your core law subjects plus enough additional non-law subjects to accrue enough credits to graduate and apply to the senate for permission to finish your studies "early". The senate is quite reasonable and if you present a valid case - such as not wanting to take your law studies any further - then they should okay it.

At least 2 thirds of law graduates will not proceed any further; there is a limited supply of DLP places at the half dozen universities that offer the postgrad. It is therefore quite wise to consider not practicing law as most grads will not be able to do so, regardless of their degree classification. However... if you want to move out of Scotland, you can do a one year CPE and hop to another country e.g. England. If you have a rubbish undergrad, you'll probably end up in PI though!

quinechinoise

Bryando wrote: »

Does the grading of first class etc come from the honours year or from the whole course?

My biggest worry is how my mental health will be impacted on doing the degree. Stress is something that makes me very ill and one of the reasons I thought being a lawyer is a bad move.

Grading comes from your honours courses, over your junior and senior honours years (3rd and 4th year).

Are you sure law is the right subject for you? The actual "contact" hours (i.e. supervised time at lectures and tutorials) is very limited. You could have as few as a dozen (or less) contact hours over the course of a week. As a law student, you are expected to do a significant amount of self-study. The course textbooks are very expensive and are insufficient on their own. You will spend a lot of time in the law library looking up past cases and photocopying case studies and textbook extracts and trying to bag textbooks that are in short supply. You will need to prep for your tutorials and pass your exams with a minimum of support. It looks like you have a ton of "free" time during the week but you'll regret it if you don't spend nearly all that time studying. Yes, you could scrape by but would you be happy to do so or are the grades important to you?

A lot of the arts degrees are much easier, if your main aim is just to get a good honours degree. Alternatively, if you are seeking a high level of study support, a degree subject that involves a larger amount of contact time might be less stressy for you. Something lab based in the sciences, maybe? They pretty much seem to spend all week at uni.

Finally, is speed really that much of an issue? Have you considered the Open University? You could carry on with your current job/lifestyle and approach your studies much slower, which might take the stress away.