Different types of tenancy agreement - which to use?

Mrs_justjohn

Am heading off to google this particular problem but thought I would get some input from you guys.

I am struggling to get my head around what tenancy agreement to use.

The situation is this:

I have someone wanting to rent a property I own that is currently empty. It is partly renovated but still has a way to go. It is safe (rewired & replumbed by registered tradesmen etc..). The house needs decorating throughout and needs a new kitchen / bathroom etc... The family are keen to move in and are NOT wanting to wait until the house is finished. They are out of the house during the day and are happy for us to retain a key and effectively come and go throughout the day (within an agreed time range (say 10am - 4pm) to carry on with the work. The house is over 3 levels and they will not have access to the top floor (Partially converted loft) as that is where we intend to keep all our tools and stuff that we will need to carry on with the work, to save us taking them back and forth.

To further complicate matters there is a large workshop in the garden of the house that they will also not have access to as we use it for storage of our business stock.

Due to the fact the house is not very 'pretty/comfortable' we have given them a much reduced rent until such time as the house is 'finished' and they are happy with this.

It seems both sides (us & Tenants) are happy with the arrangement but we can not find a tenancy agreement that covers such an unusual situation. A standard SA tenancy has several clauses in that we would be breaching and it isn't really a room let. It is more of a house share between us and the tenants - although we won't actually be living there.

Any ideas??

summerholiday

To make it easier for your both would it not be better to put a bed into the top floor room enabling you to come and go and give them lodger rights/licence until you have the property ready to let out to them completely.

Fire_Fox

Are you sure it's legal to let the property as you describe? The house must remain habitable, safe and healthy at all time, except the odd emergency which what you propose is not. Going from experience they will not have a fully functioning kitchen or bathroom each night nor if they are home sick during the day. And how are you going to manage the exposure to dust? Maybe speak to Environmental Health at the local council? If they would deem the house uninhabitable at any point they could insist you rehouse the tenants at your expense.

You do understand that tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment and can rescind access at any time regardless of what the tenancy agreement says, so you could end up with tenants paying reduced rent and you unable to start/ complete the work? Do you have to go through the house to access the workshop? Any clauses that breach a tenants rights can be deemed unfair and unenforceable. Have you considered having a solicitor draw you up an agreement?
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=41160642&postcount=12
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/43

G_M

A standard SA tenancy

You mention a SAT - are you in Scotland? If so, you need advice from a Scot!

If Eng/Wales, use a decent AST (as provided by your Landlords Association) and add in/remove/edit clauses to meet your requirements. Then get the advice bods at your LL association to check it over.

Have you checked all other rqmts:

New Landlords (general information for new or prospective landlords)

Mrs_justjohn

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Going from experience they will not have a fully functioning kitchen or bathroom each night nor if they are home sick during the day.

The kitchen will be partially fitted prior to them moving in (All plumbing done and all base units fitted). So will be safe and functioning. We propose to add wall units and tile etc...after they have moved in. There are two bathrooms in the proerty and we would only work on one at a time so they will have access to a fully functioning bathroom). Obviously we wouldn't just walk into the property as it is their home we will knock and will vacate the property if they happent to be sick or return home early:)

And how are you going to manage the exposure to dust?

Don't envisage much dust?

Maybe speak to Environmental Health at the local council? If they would deem the house uninhabitable at any point they could insist you rehouse the tenants at your expense.

Ironically the reason why they are in a hurry to move in is because they are currently in a council house that is riddled with damp and has mould on the walls yet the council have failed to sort it in 4 years! They just keep painting over it!

You do understand that tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment and can rescind access at any time regardless of what the tenancy agreement says, so you could end up with tenants paying reduced rent and you unable to start/ complete the work? Do you have to go through the house to access the workshop?

No we can access it from the rear but the workshop is on the 'land' that the tenants will be renting ...i.e the garden

Any clauses that breach a tenants rights can be deemed unfair and unenforceable. Have you considered having a solicitor draw you up an agreement?
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=41160642&postcount=12
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/43

Thnaks for your reply

Mrs_justjohn

G_M wrote: »

You mention a SAT - are you in Scotland? If so, you need advice from a Scot!

Good point - Yes I am in Scotland

If Eng/Wales, use a decent AST (as provided by your Landlords Association) and add in/remove/edit clauses to meet your requirements. Then get the advice bods at your LL association to check it over.

Have you checked all other rqmts:

New Landlords (general information for new or prospective landlords)

Thanks

Mrs_justjohn

summerholiday wrote: »

To make it easier for your both would it not be better to put a bed into the top floor room enabling you to come and go and give them lodger rights/licence until you have the property ready to let out to them completely.

So are you suggesting 'pretending' we live there and sleep in the upper floor bedroom to avoid having to give them a full TA?

Would want to keep everything above board :T

Fire_Fox

Mrs_justjohn wrote: »

Thnaks for your reply

Maybe suggest the tenants contact Environmental Health or whatever Shelter Scotland recommends http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/repairs_and_bad_conditions/repairs_in_private_rented_accommodation

They should be aware most damp and mould is condensation which can be much improved or resolved by altering lifestyle (eg. NO air drying laundry indoors, door closed and window open during and after showering) and improving ventilation (opening windows daily year round, use an electric dehumidifier). Rising and penetrating damp less often cause mould because salts being drawn through the plaster inhibit growth. As a landlord them having a damp issue would ring alarm bells, will they be bringing their bad habits with them?

theartfullodger

In Scotland a let property must meet the "Repairing standard"
See..
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Built-Environment/Housing/privaterent/landlords/physical/rules/repairing

Not sure yours does.

It is easy to, particularly if unfamiliar with Scottish landlord/tenant law, think you are agreeing a SaT but actually (regardless of what paperwork says) grant a AT & have v v v difficult to evict tenants.

Exclusion of workshop should be simple clause but your access to it is tricky (tenant can prevent you).

Initial agreement of tenant to allow access can be revoked after they move in meaning you'd need Sheriff court order to do the work you should have done before they moved in.

I'd not chance it...

Phone SaL and ask their advice.

Mrs_justjohn

theartfullodger wrote: »

In Scotland a let property must meet the "Repairing standard"
See..
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Built-Environment/Housing/privaterent/landlords/physical/rules/repairing

Not sure yours does.

I believe it complies having glanced at it quickly - it is wind and water tight and fit for human habitation. It was occupied before we bought it it is just dated and a bit shabby. No furnishings or appliances are being supplied so that is not an issue. Mains wired smoke alarms were fitted at th etime of the full rewire so that is covered :-)

It is easy to, particularly if unfamiliar with Scottish landlord/tenant law, think you are agreeing a SaT but actually (regardless of what paperwork says) grant a AT & have v v v difficult to evict tenants.

Exclusion of workshop should be simple clause but your access to it is tricky (tenant can prevent you).

Initial agreement of tenant to allow access can be revoked after they move in meaning you'd need Sheriff court order to do the work you should have done before they moved in.

To be honest I am not sure why thet would revoke access - we are doing the work to benefit them not us (i.e - more modern bathroom, kichen wall units to match the existing base units and freshly decorated bedrooms..etc) In actual fact if they refuse us access then that suits me I don't have to do the work..LOL

I'd not chance it...

Phone SaL and ask their advice.

Thanks for your input

theartfullodger

Phone SaL!