Convictions always 5yrs?

LynnF

Hello,

I have just paid to have my driving licence updated. I am now point free!

I know that most insurance companies ask if you have any points in the last 5 years but does anyone know of any companies who ask for 4 years history only?

Are there no car insurance companies that ask for 4yrs conviction history at all?

Buzby

It depends on the particular policy of the company (and what their underwriters require). The only way to do this is wade through them to find one that fits the bill.

kingstreet

I can't think of any insurer which doesn't request five years.

One or two ask for only three years' claims data, but still request five years' convictions.

Yorkie1

There is a distinction which most people confuse.

Under the penalty points system, points only count for 3 years, and can be removed after 4 years.

However, in the vast majority of cases, an offender is also fined (in addition to penalty points). The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 currently states that a conviction is 'spent' after 5 years if a fine is imposed.

Hence insurers asking for 5 years.

When s.139 of the Legal Aid, Punishment & Sentencing of Offenders Act 2012 is implemented, the rehabilitation period will become 12 months. I suspect that the insurers will still be able to ask for the 5 year history though, despite this.

Given Admiral's view that a non-conviction should be listed as a conviction, the insurers hardly cover themselves in glory at times.

forgotmyname

Is its just an SP30 then after 3 years its likely to make zero difference to the premium anyway.

So trawling through the insurers trying to find one that asks for 3 years or 4 years maybe a waste of time.

But if you dont try you never know.

vaio

Yorkie1 wrote: »

There is a distinction which most people confuse.

Under the penalty points system, points only count for 3 years, and can be removed after 4 years.

However, in the vast majority of cases, an offender is also fined (in addition to penalty points). The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 currently states that a conviction is 'spent' after 5 years if a fine is imposed.

Hence insurers asking for 5 years.

When s.139 of the Legal Aid, Punishment & Sentencing of Offenders Act 2012 is implemented, the rehabilitation period will become 12 months. I suspect that the insurers will still be able to ask for the 5 year history though, despite this........

The existing 5 year ask is based on The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 5 year rehabilitation periods for convictions involving a fine, surely as s139 sets new rehabilitation periods it follows that insurers can't carry on asking about 5 years and will be limited to the rehabilitation period for points (3 years, maybe 4 years)

thenudeone

Yorkie1 wrote: »

When s.139 of the Legal Aid, Punishment & Sentencing of Offenders Act 2012 is implemented, the rehabilitation period will become 12 months.

Very interesting. Thanks for the update.

Yorkie1 wrote: »

I suspect that the insurers will still be able to ask for the 5 year history though, despite this.

Insurers can always ASK about anything they want, including convictions 20 years ago.

The RHA 1974 states:

"...a person who has become a rehabilitated person for the purposes of this Act in respect of a conviction shall be treated for all purposes in law as a person who has not committed or been charged with or prosecuted for or convicted of or sentenced for the offence or offences which were the subject of that conviction;"

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/53
"all purposes in law" obviously includes the civil law.
Therefore the insurer can't take any action (such as voiding a policy for non-disclosure) and there is no criminal offence (fraud or providing a false statements or withholding material information to obtain a motor insurance certificate) if a policyholder lies in this manner, when there would be otherwise.

So they currently don't even bother to ask for anything over 5 years.

Once this new Act is implemented, that period will be 12 months, not 5 years.

Then, drivers can safely ignore any conviction or points over 1 year old when applying for insurance quotes (as long as the only punishment was a fine), regardless of what question the insurer asks.

The period in which points count for totting-up or remain printed on the licence are already irrelevant to insurers and they will remain so.

vaio

thenudeone wrote: »

.......Once this new Act is implemented, that period will be 12 months, not 5 years.

Then, drivers can safely ignore any conviction or points over 1 year old when applying for insurance quotes (as long as the only punishment was a fine), regardless of what question the insurer asks.

The period in which points count for totting-up or remain printed on the licence are already irrelevant to insurers and they will remain so.

nah, points count too, and the rehabilitation period from them is something like "....from when they cease to have effect or expire....." so whether that is the three years they count for totting up or the four years they stay on your licence is up for debate

thenudeone

vaio wrote: »

nah, points count too, and the rehabilitation period from them is something like "....from when they cease to have effect or expire....." so whether that is the three years they count for totting up or the four years they stay on your licence is up for debate

Don't Think So.

Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 s77
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/77

(5)The reference in subsection (1) above to the relevant particulars is to—
(a)particulars of the offence, including the date when it was committed, and
(b)the number of penalty points to be attributed to the offence
...
(7)Where the counterpart of a person’s licence is endorsed under this section he shall be treated for the purposes of sections 13(4), 28, 29 and 45 of this Act and of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 as if—
(a)he had been convicted of the offence,
(b)the endorsement had been made in pursuance of an order made on his conviction by a court under section 44 of this Act, and
(c)the particulars of the offence endorsed by virtue of subsection (5)(a) above were particulars of his conviction of that offence

Which will mean, once the new law is enacted, that the period over which "a conviction" (including points being added to the licence) needs to be declared to insurers will be 12 months from the date of the offence.

Totting up is completely separate and always has been. Totting up only applies for 3 years but points and convictions have always been declarable for 5 years.

Soon it will be 3 years and 1 year respectively.

vaio

Ahh, I'm thinking that under http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/10/section/139/enacted points are covered by the "relevant order" bit which includes "....any order which imposes a disqualification, disability, prohibition or other penalty and is not otherwise dealt with in the Table..." and for which the rehabilitation period is "...The day provided for by or under the order as the last day on which the order is to have effect...."

One for the lawyers to fight over but I'd have said that as points count for totting up for three and stay on licence for four then "....the last day on which the order is to have effect..." must be either three or four years.