8 months in - summoned to O.R. Interview in person

doseduk

Hi.. I'm about 8 months into my bankruptcy (declared mid march 2012) - I had a long telephone interview with an O.R. shortly after that, perhaps april, which lasted hours and was quite forensic, and he implied that he would be writing a report etc.. This was with an O.R. office in Blackpool, I live in the north east, so it was half way across the country.

Now, just this week, having heard literally nothing from the Insolvency Service since then (except when I had emailed the O.R. about being harassed by creditors..) - I got a letter from an O.R. office much closer to home, about 15 miles away in teesside. The letter says I am required to attend, in person at their offices, an interview to be conducted by the O.R's secretary, as they require "further explanation or clarification regarding the affairs leading up to my bankruptcy".

I'm a little scared now... I suppose I got used to the idea that I would just be fairly left alone while they did their work, and could expect just to hear more of a decision about whether they plan to impose a BRU (the O.R. in blackpool said, after telephone interview, that this was likely, because I took out a lot of debt over a few months towards the end, which I clearly couldn't have afforded in normal reasonable circumstances to pay off comfortably, even though this was during substance abuse issues and he appreciated it may not have been done wilfully and with intention to defraud.)

I'm quite scared.. I'm scared of a few things really - first of all, I'm worried that this is because they feel I might have committed fraud - I dont see what else they could possibly want to know, and what on earth they might want to know that could take, as the woman said, about 1-2 hours but maybe 3-4 if complex (the telephone interview was about 2 hours)..
She said not to worry about it, but, that's hardly put my mind at rest..

Since going backrupt, I had relapsed with alcohol and drugs twice, and in that time had accessed additional student finance which I had originally deliberately not applied for since that would have just given rise for a IPA/IPO due to the surplus income after essentials. In the time, I stupidly had also taken maybe one or two (since march) payday loans again when I was very desperate (and using/drinking, not while I was sober and on track with things, as I am now..) - these were for amounts of about 80-100 each time.. I'd hoped that these stupid mistakes might just slip into the past, and be somewhat hidden within my statements and expenditure, I went without a reasonable expenditure for food etc to repay them, so, I absorbed the cost and am just..

I guess I'm just really really really anxious now. Im worried all this stuff I'd sort of thought, whilst the I.S. were fairly silent, would just slip away and not become an issue.. now I'm worried that the fact I technically increased my income (albeit through fairly unusual means of the student loan, which is unusual because there is the capacity to essentially increase income at will, since I hadn't takent he full amount) means that since the drink and drugs I bought while in relapse aren't usually (although this is hardly talking about just, everyday spending on alcohol in a normal lifestyle) covered as essentials.. so the reality is I dont have that money anymore, it has gone. But what if they just do it all on annual terms and decide I *should* have money, even if i dont.. could they do that? I'm so confused and have only recently managed to sober up and come off things following the most recent relapse. I'm pretty rubbish to begin with, this has literally had me feeling suicidal at times, which I know must seem extreme since its just an interview, but, it just scares me.

I was falsely accused of a horrible crime back in january, and this all just reminds me of being forensically examined and interrogated, when I feel I'm doing all I can and not being dishonest, just have been a bloody idiot when it came to relapsing.

So, more than anything, I should have posted this much earlier, since people on here have been so supportive and it just helps to speak to people who understand the process, or the emotions, or both... I have no IPA/IPO in place, and as I say, realistically, have no surplus income. In fact if I did, then I could just as easily before Jan tell student finance I wish to reduce the loan amount I recieve this year with a view to the fact that not doing so would just mean because I'm taking out credit with student finance, part of my income would then be taken and I would be essentially taking out student finance for nothing, other than to repay finance, which is not a reasonable thing to ask me to do so I can do that...

It's more the money i've already spent that worries me. I have my doctor's corroboration that this is a medical issue (just because I understand this whole scenario could be abused if somebody was really that calculated to do so) - my alcoholism and drug issues were mentioned on the bankruptcy petition, in a letter attached to it from my doctor, and in the telephone interview.

I'm just very scared, and would like to know if the face to face interview is normal, or means they might be wanting to take me to court for fraud or something.. and what sorts of things they might ask. If they said its about my affairs leading up to the bankruptcy, can I be safely assured this wont be about my affairs during bankruptcy and now? or might they just decide to examine things about that too and look at whether to put an IPA/IPO in place?

And if anybody has insight towards the situation with whether the reality of me having no money at all trumps the hypothetical fact that I should, based on my income/essential exp, even though I would say that past the point of relapse, its hardly as simple as that I chose to spend the extra money - I take responsibility, but, equally, I was doing all I could to stop, intended to every day, and if the fact that what I was doing could have killed me and has ruined my life, for now, once again, and health, and everything else, and brought me to being suicidal.. obviously, if I really could have controlled spending that money, and asking for it, etc.. i would have.

I hope nobody reads this and just thinks I'm trying to cop out - I understand if it seems that way but I'm not trying to deflect responsibility or accountability, I'm just terrified and trying to emphasise that I'm not having some kind of ball and hoping for an easy ride... I'm more than happy with the idea of beign responsible, and taking responsibility, it helps in light of feeling like a tiny, failed adult after all this - I just don't know what to expect, am suffering with anxiety and withdrawal and hope somebody can help me know what to expect. My interview is in a little over a week, and Im not sleeping when I think about the fraud thing or, the risk of them telling me none of the debts are covered on bankruptcy because I should have known I couldn't repay them or something.
I'm scared.
Sorry for the essay here, I'm just, not myself and a bit scared.

Thank you so much for reading.x

PippaGirl_2

In the same way that if someone's income is solely benefits no IPA is made, student finance isn't either. Obviously you should have declared any change of income including additional student finance claims, but that won't have created an IPA.
It's not great that you've taken out further payday loans. I had assumed being BR would preclude this kind of lending, do they not credit check?!
However at the end of then day, what will be will be, if they do decide a BRO/BRU is needed in your case then it will be, and will only extend and add conditions to what is already in place and actually, given that the cause of your debt (your addictions) is not yet sorted then maybe that will not be a bad thing. Remember, no problem has no solution and you will get through this. Don't panic.

doseduk

thanks for the prompt and helpful reply.
my income consists of a mix of student loan, benefits and a part time job.. so as you probably know, the student loan does contibute to the total calculated income, but they cannot use it when taking payments into IPA/IPO.. but, if my student loan gives me extra income, they'll take this, just it'll be considered to come out of my income (I guess the rule would be that they could never end up taking more than the total income, minus your student loan, to make sure they aren't digging into the student loan, but with that logic, it wouldnt be too far off that I might as well just quit my job and take more student finance, it doesnt actually work out worthwhile, but, obviously, it throws up that kind of thing..)
So there is a risk, since the student finance increased, that they could have wanted to take some of my salary, but as I say, its done now, the money is spent, not wilfully or like, just, lavishly living day to day, but as the product of out of control addictions.. and now I'm back to having nothing again..
the fact is, if they wanted to take the money that 'should' be there, they would be taking my essential expenditure from me. i know it seems all so dark and dishonest, but I didn't mean it that way.. to say 'i wasnt thinking straight' wouldnt even begin to suffice.

and, yeah, you'd think being bankrupt meant you couldn't get loans even if you wanted to. i hoped this, to be honest, and was a bit upset, after relapsing the first time, to know that the !!!!!!!s would still chuck finance your way. they have little to lose, if you're charging in excess of a few million percent APR (that isnt me making a mistake, CFOLending, and capital finance one payday loan company charged me on one occasion 14 million percent APR... worked out like, 50 quid per 100 over 11 days or something, but, I'm sure you'll agree, that should not be legal, and in fact probably wasn't enforceable now I think...) - charging those, you could probably lend to death row inmates and make a profit - theyre !!!!!, but at least I don't feel all that guilty for half my bankruptcy, the losers out of whom, are these companies, who factor in the risk of this into their extortionate rates anyway.

You're correct about it not being a bad thing. In fact, I'm *fine* with BRU/BRO... a lot of the restrictions that I gather are typical there are not huge deals for me, i dont want to take out loads of credit, i dont want to direct a company... i can tolerate that.. i just am anxious about the IPA/IPO thing.

I know the reality is that it is crap of me to have got into this mess... but the IPA/IPO thing never seemed quite, fair.. the fact that if the week before you are discharged, you suddenly get a pay rise or, i dunno, something.. a bill goes down, you have excess, and an IPA/IPO is set up - and then affects you for 3 years from that date... whilst if the same thing happened a few days later, provided no IPA/IPO had been set up before then, you could win the lottery for all they care and keep it all.

I know its just the way it works - if I had excess money, I can see why I should have to put it into the bankruptcy.. but I dont right now. But I worry I *might* in say, a year... so if an IPA is set up now, even if straight after they decide I cant afford anything, if that changes while one is set up, then my finances aren't mine for 3 more years still... while if I can just get to March without one being set up, I can call my money mine again...

I feel scummy saying that but I just, think its only what most people's honest take on it would be. Im sure if it was a small business that'd closed cos of my insolvent debts to them I'd feel very different, but this is multinational financiers with safeguards built into their business model to counter the losses and risk of bankruptcy, and as I already said, I don't even believe the operations of half the companies I owe money to will be legal in the future, so I'm trying not to feel wholly like the scummy one in the equation.

Anyway. Thank you so much for your reply, it is reassuring and I hope things are well with you, are you in a similar boat may I ask, or just knowledgable on the topic?

sniggings

the payday loans are not a problem as far as the OR is consider, even when BR you are allowed any amount of credit, the rule is though, if the credit is for more than £500 and before you are discharged you have to tell them you are an undischarged BR, so no worry there.

The student loan, is for living expenses, you should have told them but I doubt you would have enough for an IPA anyway so nothing would have changed, so yes you need to tell them in future but I can't see it being a problem.

I think the only reason for the interview is the case has now been passed to a different office and he/she wants to see if an BRU is needed, it may not or as you already knew it may be given, but without wanting to make light of BRU but they only extend some conditions for a length of time, many of them you will not even be needing anyway, conditions about not getting credit without informing the creditor of your BR and not being a company director...things like that, so not the end of the world.

I really think you have nothing to worry about, sounds way worse than it is.

doseduk

again. thank you. i was aware of the £500+ must state youre bankrupt rule, i guess I was more worried that the O.R. might see it as bad conduct that I took out credit again, or perhaps that interest payments for credit aren't essential, and that might have thrown up problems?

I'm getting the feeling that even with my worries here, they're more likely to want to know why i went bankrupt to begin with, my affairs then (as the letter suggests) and what to do regarding a BRU...

As I said, I can fine-tune my income using student finance to ENSURE i dont have more than I need to live to my means... so in theory, an IPA/IPO shouldn't need to come about unless I choose to obtain more student finance than I need.. I find it odd that since I was declared bankrupt, nobody has asked for more income details? The O.R. in blackpool, back in april, said I'd receive forms that requested up to date expenditure and income figures, but I never got it..
somebody also said that they usually send out these forms again after 6 months (which passed 2 months ago now) to check up..

I appreciate the kind words, and reassurance. Im struggling so much at the moment with everything, staying at uni, mental health, addictions and just.. I'm kind of, very, close to just, feeling in control again, and this whole second interview thing just scares me and makes me feel like financially, I am still far from being in control.

I hope you're right though and that its just a case that the new office wants to make their own enquiries (I looked at the IA86 and realised how liable receivers are to be prosecuted themselves if they do things wrong or fail to carry out things fully.. so I understand why its so rigorous!) - and also that the fact that a BRU/BRO has been alluded to as likely, hopefully it is just normal that this makes the case more complex, thus demanding a face to face interview to finalise plans about that.

In a way, I'd LIKE the BRU/BRO simply because I am clearly not well still, and I don't want to become complaisant, or feel a sense of being let off the hook and off to just, screw up again...
If a BRU/BRO is deserved, appropriate and decided upon, then I'm completely fine with that and appreciate the reasoning.

Thank you again, it means a lot that you'd take the time to reply and help put my mind at ease a little while I wait to have this over with.

All the best x

debtinfo

Hi Doseduk, The office at blackpool also acts as an overflow office for cases in the north of england so your case would have been sent there initially because there was to much work at your local office. However they do not do BRO/BRU's there for other offices hence why it will now be going back to your local office. I wouldnt worry to much about the reasons for the second face to face interview. It is standard procedure that if they are considering a BRO/BRU that they must do a face to face interview. The reason for that is that even if you are going to accept the BRU they have to proceed as if they were to take the evidence to court in case you decide to fight against it, as such they must have a written statement from you and the phone interview is not good enough evidentially for that purpose, so even if they ask exactly the same questions and you give exactly the same answers they still have to go through the process of getting you in to the office. They will write a record of the interview as they go through it with you which is why it takes a number of hours and at the end you will sign to to confirm the details, you also get the chance at that point to add anything you think was missed or missinterpreted by the examiner

All that is standard procedure, as for your other points as sniggings has pointed out taking less than £500 in credit is not illegal although obviously is not advisable. On the extra income, that is where there may be a slight problem but if there was unlikely to have been extra income for an IPA (ie if income was still low) then it is unlikely to have any serious consequence although obviously you should have declared it.All you can do now is be as honest as you can be from now on, you cant change what has already happened.

DI

tigerfeet2006

doseduk, are you getting any help with your addictions? I hope you are getting some support as it must be hell trying to tackle it all on your own.

sniggings

just a comment on the interview, be careful what you say, as it will be written down and can be used.

I'm guessing you're British and as such we tend to apologise at the drop of a hat, so unless it's true, don't be saying "oh I know I did wrong and am sorry I won't do it again..." or "yes I knew I didn't have the money to pay the loan back but...", try and remember your state of mind back then, not how you see things now, at the time you may have got a loan and really intended on paying it back, you may not have even thought of how you were going to do that, my guess is you didn't sit down and work out your income and expenses and think emm yes a £50 a month payment will be the final straw and mean me going BR, I bet you just hoped for the best and thought the loan was your only way out, so say that at interview, be careful as the OR may present to you how unlikely you would be able to pay back all your loans but yet applied for more, again don't agree if it's not how you saw it back then, yes now you can see it but then you were not thinking clearly so did not willfully get credit knowing you were unlikely to pay it back.

Try and keep your answer short and to the point, the more you say the more chance you will say something you shouldn't.

Good luck.

doseduk

ah.. i really cant begin to say how grateful I am for the ongoing replies and supportive but, realistic advice.

debtinfo, yeah.. I remember being told about blackpool's use as overflow - I hadn't realised that the case would still be likely to return back to the local office - especially if a BRO/BRU was to be looked at. And yes, it just occurred to me that they have no guarantees that I will sign a BRU until I've actually signed it.. so yes, due extensiveness in their investigations makes sense.

tigerfeet - thank you for your concern about that.. yes. my problems with drugs and alcohol have spanned a number of years now, and I have addressed them from a number of angles, AA, my GP, CDAS/CAS/CDS and peer support but, basically yes I'm getting help. And my intention is complete abstention, nothing less, so, I do believe that, now, clean and sober, my thoughts are in the right place (not hoping one day to be able to drink again, just desperately wanting to never again).

I'm a week clean and sober now. Which is a start. Obviously this all coming up just as I cold turkeyed everything has catalysed the stress it onsets but, I'm okay and much better for having spoken to people here.

It's upsetting to realise that despite bankruptcy, and everything else for that matter, I am not only still clearly at risk of relapse, but that in relapse, I would still at the drop of a hat take out finance with companies that have charged me in excess of 14,000,000% APR in the past (CFOLending.. formerly capital finance one, for example)..
Its depressing, and I only wish THESE COMPANIES were banned from GIVING the loans to bankrupts.. I understand the issues with how to implement that, and whether heavy handed governance of industry like that, even if it is scummy extortionate, irresponsible payday lenders (of which I genuinely don't consider Wonga to be one, may I add... their interest rates are if anything realistic for the product, and they were admirably, not that I saw it as that at the time, the first company of their kind to start declining my desperate applications for loans, so, good for them I guess.. Still unsavoury but, angelic compared to some of the PDL market..)

Sniggins - thank you. i'm not kidding, i've been trying to de-stress by running over in my head potential parts of the interview, and what I would say - and in my desperate state, I do think I am inclined to just start spilling my guts with apologies, acknowledging how stupid it was, stating how I see it was irresponsible, and essentially basing my responses on what the tel interview with the other O.R. helped me realise about not being able to reasonably pay off the debts.
I suppose it matters a lot to me that this person, the I.S. staff member to conduct the interview, at least, thinks I'm honest and regret things. I just want people to see I'm not trying to pretend I wasn't an idiot, and that I'm genuine on that front. But yes, you're right, doing so could easily be misconstrued or misunderstood to show that I knew this from day one.. in reality, it wasn't really until the end of my couple hour first telephone interview with the O.R. that I realised that I took out loans I wouldn't have never been able to reasonably afford to repay on time, let alone realising that as I signed the agreements 6 months prior to that.

This forum is a lifesaver. I really didnt know whether to expect people to just tell me to stop whining and accept that I deserved what was going on and to grow up.. I'm ever grateful that people have been how they have been, and really will try to make sure I remain ont he forums in the future to give back the same help to others in due course.

Thanks, I hope to speak soon with better news of things clearing up a bit, and for the sake of anybody reading this also anticipating similar upcoming interview/bro etc.. I'll be sure to post how the second interview went in a new post after I've had it (a week tomorrow).

X

mynumber

Hi Doseduk, CONGRATULATONS on your one week clean and sober, we have to start somewhere, stay strong and remember we are all with you

K X :T

doseduk

thank you very muchh. its early days. ive had so many periods of months, at most 6, totally clean and sober, so I still ahve a long way to go but, yes. a day seemed fairly impossible this time a bit over a week ago so, thank you, it means a lot x