Economy 10 electricity

HappyMJ

equitable wrote: »

economy radiators dot com - is, as suspected, the Fischer / WIBO product, I've read on this very site from unfortunates who admit they were foolish enough to purchase these products that the price per panel [ not storage - the do not store any heat ] heater is about £1200 and about £5000 - not the £1000 per dwelling quoted by HappyMJ.

A reply in that thread by davidj1964 said :

WARNING: Do not be tempted by Fischers brochure or salesman. We have just had six of their so-called storage radiators installed, replacing our Dimplex Night Storage Heaters, after seeing their advert in a national newspaper offering up to 40% savings.

It is the biggest mistake we have ever made! They do not heat our house half as well as what our storage heaters did and judging by our meter readings so far, they may even cost us more by the end of the quarter.

We have just wasted £5000 and there is nothing we can do to go back now. We have complained to Fischer that we are not happy but all they have done is phoned us to say that we are not using them properly, but we are using the initial recommended settings.

We know their is little chance of a refund so that we could go back to storage heaters.

Go and read the whole thread - best of luck ellie99

Pricing here --- http://www.economy-radiators.com/electric-radiator-prices.html

Prices start from £234 inclusive of VAT per panel. When I stated £1,000 I did also say that was only 4 panels. As with any overpriced product some negotiation and haggling is required and they can be easily purchased for £1,000. The company is still making a mint as the markup is so large. If I'm also going to quote a £10 per heater cost for the cheapest heater on the market then I'll give them a little bit of the benefit the doubt quoting the lowest possible price rather than quoting the top line price.

equitable

Thanks for the link HappyMJ, that £234 buys only a 500watt unit. No amount of psuedo-science is going to heat a living room with a half-K. Do you really believe it will ?

equitable

Their own literature recommends 1kWh in their selective 'living room test'

Good

At least they do publish their prices up front.
At least their prices are not stealthed or as high as Fischer's.

Bad

The price of their 1kWh panel heater is £288 is about the same as a new slimline Creda 2.5 TSR18AW but has only half the capacity.

To have the same capacity as a 3.4 night store you would need 2x1.5@£330=£660 and 1x500@£234=£234 costing £994 that's £474 more than a Dimplex XL24N.

Their own tests are based on the a single story bungalow.
The bungalow is heated non stop 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
All 4 rooms in the bungalow are heated 24/365.
That's a collective 3.5kWh per hour 365 days a year.
Their costing's are based on a nonsense 1997 tariff of 24x365x8p per unit.
The accumulative kWh use suggests a well above average insulated building with little heat loss.

ellie99

Equitable -
I am reading my way through the link you posted about fischer, hadn't heard of them, and am not impressed with the reports. Maybe if something sounds too good to be true, it is!
It may be that I eventually save up, and just get up to date storage heaters, instead of my ancient ones.

Thank you all for your help, I will be back at my house later this week, will take up to date meter readings, then get on the phone to try and find out if I'm better moving to E7.

HappyMJ

equitable wrote: »

Thanks for the link HappyMJ, that £234 buys only a 500watt unit. No amount of psuedo-science is going to heat a living room with a half-K. Do you really believe it will ?

Of course not neither do I believe you can run one of these heaters for a penny an hour. However, if you kept 4 of these 500W heaters running 24 hours a day in a small living room, small kitchen/diner and the 2 bedrooms then the room/house temperature probably won't fall too low and I'll have to assume an extremely well insulated 2 bedroom flat in a relatively warm part of the country (anywhere considered north not included). It may just work. My 2kw heater keeps my bedroom toasty warm and it really only cycles on and off to be on 25% of the time once the room has reached it's target temperature so an ongoing cost of 0.5kWh after the first hour. I suppose if I never turned it off then 500W could just be enough to maintain the temperature in that one room. Although I doubt it when it's snowing outside and keep the door shut...I'd hate to think of the recovery time of the room temperature once someone opens the front door and lets all the heat out.

The cost of running those four 500W heaters 24 hours a day spread evenly around a tiny flat combined making 2kW would then be 48kWh per day and at 12p/kWh would cost £178.56 over 31 days in December and January....certainly not economic. I'll stick with my relatively powerful 2kw heaters and turn them off when not needed.

Even just 4 small storage heaters Dimplex XL12 (1700W input) would cost much less to run if loaded fully every night. Also consumes exactly the same amount of energy at 48kWh per night but at a much cheaper rate of 6p/kWh costing £89.28 per month over December and January. You would get the same result in room temperature but in my opinion a bit more controllable as you can turn the output down overnight and in the morning and release more heat in the evening. Again probably not enough heat for very late in the evening when snowing outside but that is a well known limitation of storage heating.

equitable

ellie99 wrote: »

Equitable -
I am reading my way through the link you posted about fischer, hadn't heard of them, and am not impressed with the reports. Maybe if something sounds too good to be true, it is!
It may be that I eventually save up, and just get up to date storage heaters, instead of my ancient ones.

Thank you all for your help, I will be back at my house later this week, will take up to date meter readings, then get on the phone to try and find out if I'm better moving to E7.

Don't fix too much on the one named Fischer retailer. There are more than several different retailers selling the same product under a different branding name, but essentially they're all WIBO panel heaters - not radiators - and definitely not storage radiators.

The economyradiatorcompany mentioned by HappyMJ they seem however to have a quite different, up front and honourable approach to the business of selling to the public. I don't necessarily agree with the realities of their figures, costs, and heat outcomes, but nothing is hidden from view. At least you, the householder can make a cost / benefit guesstimate before even making contact - you would never be afforded that luxury with Fischer.

On the issue of saving up, you can do yours one at a time. For example, the big one in your living room now before winter could be changed for a Dimplex DuoHeat storage heater and the remainder with standard [non-duo] automatic charge control storage heaters over the next 12 months. Modern versions are moderately slim compared to their older cousins and much much more effective at reducing 'leaked' heat.

Going back to your #1 costs issue, on the weeks when there's no one in the place. Until temps sink to 5° C-you really don't need any setting higher than the absolute minimum. If in doubt buy or borrow a cheap thermometer, leave it where you think the pipes would burst, set everything to minimum, and read the temp on the tube next time you go back. Pipes hardly ever burst [freezing - water volume increase by about 9%] if the heating is on, and hardly ever burst under 22ºF or 5.5C.