House guest flooded the bath; water seeped through the floor to the downstairs flat

olly300

Quentin wrote: »

An act of god for which he's blameless seems a harsh reason to suggest the op will be made homeless.

Landlords evict tenants who are hassle.

Causing problems with other people in the building who then complain a lot is a hassle.

huckster

Quentin wrote: »

If there is or isn't insurance in place, that isn't your concern!

Unless negligence can be proven, the neighbours/landlord need to claim off their own insurance, or stump up themselves!

Exactly. The landlady is talking nonsense. If she is letting the flat without informing her Insurers and mortgage company, she is taking one hell of a risk. What if it is a fire the next time.

Dragon_of_Consumer_Power

Thanks again for the feedback. I appreciate this is a slightly complex issue given the myriad landords/tenants involved, but I'm just trying to ascertain my basic line of argument - that it was an accident, that we the tenants weren't involved, and that we are obviously willing to pay up through proper insurance channels. If it emerges that proper insurance isn't in place for some or all of the flats in this building, I would assume that would complicate things - but not against us, necessarily. Still, there remains a moral obligation for us/Julian to fix the problem that he caused.

Dragon_of_Consumer_Power

Another email from the letting agent. Is she correct in saying that we're responsible for the actions of our guests?

The block is factored by our Block Factoring section (the common stair,
the roof, the hallway lighting etc) but only one of those flats is
managed by us.
Normally we would advise owners to claim their insurance and the
insurance company would then seek to recover costs. Please be aware that
as tenants you are responsible for the actions of all guests, so unless
you can get Julian to sign something then it will be you and Heather
that the insurance companies try to recover costs from.
We can discuss both when I visit if you want.

Quentin

Even if your agreement says this, your guest would have to be proved to have acted negligently.

As has been previously posted, this doesn't seem to be the case.

huckster

The person who owns each flat should have their Insurance. That is my understanding of how Insurance works for factors in Scotland. There is some central Insurance that covers the structure, roof, outside walls, communal stairways etc.

So each of the flatowners with the flood damage will need to claim on their own Insurance policies. All you have to do, is provide Julians name and address, for the Insurers to write to him, if they wish to try to recover some of their outlays. Julian should not sign anything and neither should you. All Julian should do is make a statement in a letter about what happened, without admitting any liability. The letter should simply state the facts of how he managed to let a bath overflow.

The letting agent is talking carp and is trying to stitch you up.

lisyloo

the only thing I'm worried about is that, ultimately, my girlfriend and I are on the tenancy agreement and I worry that thus the buck would stop with us? Or is that not true?

It's not true that just because you are tennants you are liable.
Liability needs to be established.
This is either done by insurance companies agreeeing it, or by insurer/individuals going to court and asking a judge to decide (usually the former).

If it emerges that proper insurance isn't in place for some or all of the flats in this building, I would assume that would complicate things

Let's get one thing straight once and for all.
Having insurance or not does not affect one iota who is liable in law for this.
It obviously makes it a lot easier to get paid, but it does NOT change who is legally liable.

IMO you should not be arguing liability with other tenants, the landlord or the letting agent.
All that will happen is a pantomine "Oh yes your are", "Oh no I'm not".
You need insurance companies involved to settle liability. They will argue it between themselves and normally do this out of court.
It's not up to you to become an amateur lawyer.

Essentially you need to say to these people "sue me".

If the individuals do not have insurance and you won't cough up or your insurance, then they would have to take you to court.

Have you informed your own insurer yet? What have they said?

Dragon_of_Consumer_Power

Thanks again - I understand and will now just write an account of what happened, sans statement of liability.

We don't have our own insurer in the flat, although the landlady does. I asked her to inform them, but she says she is reluctant to do so.

Quentin

You cannot state what happened as you were fast asleep!

All you can state is what you were told regarding the emergency your friend attended to.

Though better not to volunteer anything in writing bearing in mind the way the agent is behaving.

Deny liability and await developments. Then get legal advice if necessary.

lisyloo

I understand and will now just write an account of what happened, sans statement of liability.

I think you need to be very careful of what information you provide in case it prejudices your case. I would provide as little information as possible.
You are not under any obligation to provide a full explanation.
It's their problem to prove you are liable not yours to prove you are not at this point although obviously you would want to defend yourself to your insurer or a judge.
You risk prejudicing your case if you say something wrong, that's why it's best to leave this to insurers.

I asked her to inform them, but she says she is reluctant to do so.

Then basically it's down to the other people or their insurance companies to deal with your insurer or to take you or your guest to court if they think you or your guest are liable.
My expectation is that these people would be advised NOT to take you to court as proving negligence is unlikely, there is not normally negligence involved and even if there was it's almost impossible for people outside your flat to prove it (unless you incriminate yourself by giving too much information).

I would personally say as little as possible, keep copies and notes of all correspondance and pass any letters requesting insurance details onto the landlady. I would write back politely saying very little but saying the request has been passed on to the landlady who is the policyholder for the buildings insurance.
If they ask for payment then I'd say no I don't believe I'm liable - which means "sue me".
I don't believe you are obligated to provide your guests details and if I were your guest I would not want you passing them on.

Sorry if this sounds a little harsh, but the other tennants damage is THEIR problem and not yours.